Does course condition and quality of play go hand in hand?

[pusher]

Is it safe to say one would most likely play better and score better on a course in very good or excellent condition as opposed to one in poor condition, given similar layout and length?

[GaijinGolfer]

I would say no.  Unless the greens are absolutely tore up its not going to make a huge difference.

[goblue107501]

I would say yes, at least for me anyway.  I would much rather play at the course with consistent rough, great fairway lies, and great rolling greens.  For me it is easier to score on the 'good' courses becuase you never have a bad lie or a bumpy inconsistant green.  There is nothing worse than hitting a fairway and having a horrible lie because the grass sucks, or having what should be an easy putt only to have it bounce the whole way and get offline.

[Fourputt]

In my opinion, only the greens should make a significant difference to a player who has a reasonable arsenal in his bag.  If you never play anything but a pristine course, then maybe the OP's opinion is true.  You have to work on your game from bad lies before you really know how to handle them.  But a player with a well rounded game won't be that much bothered by changes in rough, in bunker consistency, or by tight, hardpan type lies.

Poorly maintained or damaged greens are the one thing which can really screw up anyone's game.

[Leftygolfer]

I'd say no but I play winter rules.  Right now our courses aren't growing grass and I don't play the ball down until the season starts.  If the greens are really fast then they very well might be easier to putt on.  But if I was actually playing real golf, then the better lies everywhere will far outwieght the easier greens.  But for some reason, I seem to putt really well on bad greens.  I've had some great putting days on just been airated greens.

[USMCSemantics]

I would say yes, especially green conditions.  I played two rounds over the weekend at a course where the greens were a nightmare to putt on.  A two putt was all you could ask for and I left with 3 3-putts, which I never do.  Also you have to think about how that affects your approach shots onto the green.  I had several shots land on the green and roll off the back or sides, the greens were so hard you couldn't find your divot.

[alo1984]

Yes and no.  A course in terrible condition can absolutely affect your game.  If the fairways aren't mowed or the greens are trash then that will obviously affect your ability to score well.  Here's the kicker: if you stink anyways, the course conditions are going to have little affect.  A poor player is going to see a higher score on a well maintained, quality designed course.  BUt that same poor player will likely score lower at a run down local muni course because the conditions will be slower and easier than the nicer course.

[WUTiger]

Here's what I faced on poorly maintained holes - or sometimes entire courses which needed work:

• Due to a city budget shortfall, a big oak tree was laying across the left side of the fairway on a medium par 4. Tree was down in a valley, so you couldn't see where your ball landed if your drive went left. Hole became a major bottleneck for slow play as people climbed around the tree looking for their ball.
• Some 40 miles away, more storm damage. Broken tree branches hung down from taller trees, sometimes over edge of fairway. This means that you might have to punch the ball straight left, even though it was on the edge of the fairway. One reason I carried a 3 iron, to punch ball under storm damage.
• Another place, the greens crew had resodded a 100-yard stretch of fairway on a long par 5. But, they took away the "under repair" markers before ths sod really took. So, at least one person in the foursome would have a ball on dirt with tuft of grass right behind it. What a fairway! You were better off to be in the light rough.
• One 9-hole course decided to vacate its few greenside bunkers, let them become waste areas. They sure did. I've seen players push a ball into an old bunker, and be unable to find it.
• The railtie pilings along a creek bed caved in after a spring rain. When you laid up to the wedge zone short of the green, the new dip in the fairway drained your ball into the creek, under the railties. Couldn't extract ball w/o moving rail ties, risking a cave-in on you.
• One hole was run across a deep valley. To make a landing area, the designers had bulldozed soil (like tons and tons) into the low area between the hills. After heavy spring rains, however, the soil started washing out of the low area and down into a stream. This made a swamp better than the beavers could.
• Courses that have chopped up teeing areas. When you have a hanging lie on the tee box, that's a bit much.

[clubchamp]

I'd say yes and no... it doesn't change my quality of play but on a beat up course you are more likely catch bad breaks which bother me mentality.

[limoric]

I agree with the mental aspect. When I play a course in great condition, I just feel more inspired. Good thoughts lead to good scores. If the greens are in bad shape or slow, this is an absolute factor I believe; I Iike to get the put started as opposed to hitting the puts firm to get them going. It's no different for the pros, Tiger likes very fast greens...

[Johnnyooze]

You get what you pay for! I play this little 3 par course all the time for free thats not that great. I dont take it too seriously because the fairway IS the rough and the greens are slow and bumpy. But its fun and pretty challenging because the holes range from 80 yrds to 190 yrds and the greens are very small. So i treat it like an irons clinic. The day i hit all 9 GIRs on that course is the day i sign up for Q school lol. But ya its fustrating when you pay good money for a round and the greens suck and the sand traps are hard as cement.... boo winter!

[mattttt25]

Yes and no as well.  I think greens and fairway condition can affect your game, both directly and indirectly (mental aspect).  A putt that doesn't follow the intended line because of terrible greens obviously affects scoring.  And for me, a fairway that is rock hard with dying turf is tough to play in (mostly because I don't hit the ball first that often).

With that said, how YOU are playing that day will affect scoring much more than the condition of the course.

[lumpuckeroo]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I would say no.  Unless the greens are absolutely tore up its not going to make a huge difference.

I would agree, my father is a member of a 9 hole course that has fantastic greens, but not much else.  In the summer time there is very little grass in the so called fairways and you are better off in the so called rough.  The "fairways" get really hard in the summer time and you can get some very long drives which leaves a lot of chips and pitches to greens.  And once on the green the hard part is done, the greens roll true and for me a perfect speed, not super fast but not slow.  I always do well on that course.

[Lofty Lefty]

I say no.

Whilst playing a nicer course is, well, nicer! It has little to no affect on people's ability to 'hit the ball'.

If you're striking it well, doesn't really matter how the course is, aesthetically.

Case in point;

I played the same course (my home course) twice, 4 days apart. Identical conditions. I went 94 - 81.

It's between the ears!!

[Jeffrey71]

I realize this thread hasn't been used in a while, but I'm gonna say this anyway:

I played in my first "stroke" play tournament since I was a teenager(25 years) this past weekend. Where I live hasn't seen rain for 2 weeks, and last week the temp topped 100 for at least 5 days. Needless to say the course condition was very, very dry and hard; little to no grass in areas and the fairways where like concrete covered with that fake grass stuff you would see on patios.

I'm not well rounded enough in my game to be accustomed to playing on these types of conditions and it really deflated me. In the 2 weeks prior to the tournament I shot an 86 and a 90. During the 2 day, 36 hole tournament I shot a 93 and a 97. I'll admit playing with guys I'd never met before; very slow pace; and a tournament setting, affected me mentally. I think what affected me most (mentally) was how my shots reacted on such tight, hard pan lies. Plus, some really bad bounces when the ball landed and people scuffing their feet across the greens. Finally, the first day the wind was 20-25 mph, so at times you would have to club up 2 clubs.

I talked with some guys I knew and their scores suffered as well. Guys that normally shoot in the mid to high 70's scoring in the low 90's.

I'm really glad for the experience, and it makes me want to become more well rounded. On a good note, out of 36 holes I only had 2 penalty strokes and lost only 1 ball, which is great for me.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey71

I realize this thread hasn't been used in a while, but I'm gonna say this anyway:

I played in my first "stroke" play tournament since I was a teenager(25 years) this past weekend. Where I live hasn't seen rain for 2 weeks, and last week the temp topped 100 for at least 5 days. Needless to say the course condition was very, very dry and hard; little to no grass in areas and the fairways where like concrete covered with that fake grass stuff you would see on patios.

I'm not well rounded enough in my game to be accustomed to playing on these types of conditions and it really deflated me. In the 2 weeks prior to the tournament I shot an 86 and a 90. During the 2 day, 36 hole tournament I shot a 93 and a 97. I'll admit playing with guys I'd never met before; very slow pace; and a tournament setting, affected me mentally. I think what affected me most (mentally) was how my shots reacted on such tight, hard pan lies. Plus, some really bad bounces when the ball landed and people scuffing their feet across the greens. Finally, the first day the wind was 20-25 mph, so at times you would have to club up 2 clubs.

I talked with some guys I knew and their scores suffered as well. Guys that normally shoot in the mid to high 70's scoring in the low 90's.

I'm really glad for the experience, and it makes me want to become more well rounded. On a good note, out of 36 holes I only had 2 penalty strokes and lost only 1 ball, which is great for me.

In order to be comfortable with playing under different, and possibly extreme conditions, you simply have to do it.  Just get out and play.  I played year round, weather permitting, for many years in Colorado.  Hot cold, wet, dry, frozen, sloppy - and I got so I could play fairly consistently regardless of the conditions.  A sloppy, muddy course is perhaps the worst for me.  Hard and fast just takes playing a different sort of shot.  Instead of trying to hit high soft irons, play what the course gives you.   Play low running shots as much as possible, both because it's easier to make contact on a tight lie with an 8I that with a 52 degree wedge, and because it minimizes the weird bounces you get from dry, baked ground.  I'll play a shot that's almost more like a long chip.  Its my stock shot when playing on frozen turf.  I'll tell you this - you learn how to play touch shots under those conditions.

[newtogolf]

IMO course condition does affect play and score.  A course with poorly maintained greens and fairways with improper drainage will hurt my score.  It could be a lack of experience in playing on such courses but, mud balls and greens that look like golf balls definitely result in a higher scoring round for me.

[chilly]

Yes, definitely can hurt scores playing on bad courses.  Right now due to drought/hot conditions, courses in Richmond are a bit rough.  Greens are very inconsistent as they let them grow out.  Areas around the green are very patchy, lots of thin lies with grass right behind the ball as it sits down in a thin spot of grass.  Bad grass around greens made bump and run impossible as well.  Played Saturday at a course where the bunkers hadn't been raked in ages, like hitting out of wet cement, very difficult to play a decent sand shot.