Tiger at Doral - Turning the Corner?

[RichF]

Oh, and one day of 'target-golf' in easy conditions at a TV-course like Doral and a low-round of 'casual golf' at Tavistock with some chums is in no way , ' getting your groove back'.

It's probably a step-up from his chum, John Cooke's 'his swing is clicking on the range' comment a few weeks back...

[Gioguy21]

Originally Posted by RichF

Oh, and one day of 'target-golf' in easy conditions at a TV-course like Doral and a low-round of 'casual golf' at Tavistock with some chums is in no way, 'getting your groove back'.

It's probably a step-up from his chum, John Cooke's 'his swing is clicking on the range' comment a few weeks back...

yea, Els, O'Hair, G-Mac, Poulter...those the 'chums' you speak of? can another tiger hater please stand up? i said i hope it continues for golf's sake...never said sh*t bout golf being 'doomed' as you so put. i hope for it because it'd be good for golf to have him come back around to a player that at least competes well again...so he doesn't end up leaving his career on a very bad spiral. btw, if you think it's 'target-golf' in easy conditions, at your handicap i highly doubt you'd break 100 there from where they play.

[franky21]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Bay Hill will be another indicator of progress or not.  It is a tournament he has dominated in the past.  If he finishes back in the pack again, it will be another setback, similar to Torrey Pines.  If he plays well all four days, something he hasn't done for a very long time (his tie for 10th at Doral was his best in 9 months), then maybe he will be on his way.  Only time will tell.

I agree he is playing a Bay Hill course that he likes and feels good playing. So it is important for him to put some good rounds together. But with that being said i see progression but we will see after this final round today.

[franky21]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

He still looked a little reverse "C" at times today.

But what golfer strikes the ball well all day. Even when he was crazy off the tee he got up and down and the most important thing was the putting. I don't think he played amazing but compared to how he has been putting and grinding this was pretty good.

[franky21]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Do we really need a new thread for each day Tiger plays golf? Can't we have a Tiger Woods Master Thread where all his performance and otherwise irrelevant actions are discussed?

How do you figure?

It caught your interest thats why you wrote something.

[franky21]

Originally Posted by RichF

Oh, and one day of 'target-golf' in easy conditions at a TV-course like Doral and a low-round of 'casual golf' at Tavistock with some chums is in no way, 'getting your groove back'.

It's probably a step-up from his chum, John Cooke's 'his swing is clicking on the range' comment a few weeks back...

why wont you read up on tavistock and see how that course is set up and how those greens are super fast and it is the course the golfers go to to tune up for augusta. That saids alot about the course so read up on something before you make a comment that makes no sense.

[RichF]

Originally Posted by Gioguy21

yea, Els, O'Hair, G-Mac, Poulter...those the 'chums' you speak of? can another tiger hater please stand up? i said i hope it continues for golf's sake...never said sh*t bout golf being 'doomed' as you so put. i hope for it because it'd be good for golf to have him come back around to a player that at least competes well again...so he doesn't end up leaving his career on a very bad spiral. btw, if you think it's 'target-golf' in easy conditions, at your handicap i highly doubt you'd break 100 there from where they play.

Firstly, light-breezy conditions + hot sun = low scores. The bunkers and water hazards are obvious...but this doesn't neccessarily make for a 'great golf course'. Except for 18, there's little drama to it.

Secondly, we're talking about professional golfers playing...not me...so your last line is completely moot.

Thirdly, I'm not a Tiger-Hater...I just despise his 'followers' harping on at every possible opportunity when he shoots a good round cos it prompts yet more 'Tiger's Back' threads.

Like I said a few weeks back, the majority of these types are usually 20-30 years old, have every copy of EA Sports 'Tiger Woods PGA Tour' and probably wear red & black when they play on a Sunday.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Do we really need a new thread for each day Tiger plays golf? Can't we have a Tiger Woods Master Thread where all his performance and otherwise irrelevant actions are discussed?

How do you figure?

They played one of his swings during Tavistock - head was back, hips forward --  (it is not the classic reverse "C" but it was not stack 'n tilt). I think It's natural for him to be inconsistent at this stage.

Also, I look at other pros swinging at Tavistock and I look at Tiger -- and Tiger looks like that guy in a pro foursome who is trying too hard ... as if he has some type of rage going at the ball whereas other pros are smooth and hit it far, Tiger is trying to overpower the ball, and I think his fierce internal rage at the ball contributes to his inconsistency.

Just a thought. I wonder if the guy suffers from depression. Just looking at symptoms -- the quick temper outbursts throughout his career, the quest for perfection, the fierce, almost rage-like swing at the ball, the sex addiction, the self-centeredness, the isolation that being a celebrity brings -- it points to potential depression. Ah, only Tiger and his doctors know... I guess that's why I cut him some slack -- something is wrong.

[RichF]

Quote:

why wont you read up on tavistock and see how that course is set up and how those greens are super fast and it is the course the golfers go to to tune up for augusta. That saids alot about the course so read up on something before you make a comment that makes no sense.

Your reply made even less sense - I never even mentioned the way the course at Tavistock Cup is set up.

It's as important to 'serious' golf fans as 'American Idol' is to opera fans - a complete joke.

The Tavistock Cup is all about why people point and laugh at golf: snobbery and elitism long associated with country-club cliches.

[Gioguy21]

Originally Posted by RichF

Firstly, light-breezy conditions + hot sun = low scores. The bunkers and water hazards are obvious...but this doesn't neccessarily make for a 'great golf course'. Except for 18, there's little drama to it.

Secondly, we're talking about professional golfers playing...not me...so your last line is completely moot.

Thirdly, I'm not a Tiger-Hater...I just despise his 'followers' harping on at every possible opportunity when he shoots a good round cos it prompts yet more 'Tiger's Back' threads.

Like I said a few weeks back, the majority of these types are usually 20-30 years old, have every copy of EA Sports 'Tiger Woods PGA Tour' and probably wear red & black when they play on a Sunday.

1) apparently you didn't see how fast the greens were. 3) who's harping? i said it's good for golf, i'm not a follower of tiger in case you assumed such. btw, take a deep breath and relax. your bitterness sounds like you got suckered out of a 20-30 year old playing you on a sunday wearing red and black.


Btw, calling scoring conditions easy is a little out of perspective. ever play a scramble? how are those scores? are they lower than par usually? hmm?

[Zeph]

Originally Posted by RichF

Thirdly, I'm not a Tiger-Hater...I just despise his 'followers' harping on at every possible opportunity when he shoots a good round cos it prompts yet more 'Tiger's Back' threads.

Like I said a few weeks back, the majority of these types are usually 20-30 years old, have every copy of EA Sports 'Tiger Woods PGA Tour' and probably wear red & black when they play on a Sunday.

Why do you enter and take part in threads you don't like? Do you have some goal to get rid of everyone out there that like Tiger, and do you expect to succeed? I don't care for american football or hockey, but I don't go around in every thread I can find on the subject and talk crap about it. Spend your time and energy discussing something you find interesting or like, not what you dislike. Only thing you achieve with this, is creating a bad environment on the forum.

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

They played one of his swings during Tavistock - head was back, hips forward --  (it is not the classic reverse "C" but it was not stack 'n tilt).

Tiger is not learning Stack & Tilt, at least not all of it. Still, he is not doing a reverse pivot, he's doing a secondary axis tilt. Head stays still in the middle of his stance, hips move forward. A reverse pivot is when the upper body translate back and never get forward again, and the hips don't get forward, leaving the weight way back. There is a huge difference between these two positions. Both may look like a backwards C, but one is a reverse pivot, and the other is a great move.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Tiger is not learning Stack & Tilt, at least not all of it. Still, he is not doing a reverse pivot, he's doing a secondary axis tilt. Head stays still in the middle of his stance, hips move forward. A reverse pivot is when the upper body translate back and never get forward again, and the hips don't get forward, leaving the weight way back. There is a huge difference between these two positions. Both may look like a backwards C, but one is a reverse pivot, and the other is a great move.

I didn't say he was doing a reverse pivot ... being on this forum, you learn the difference. And sometimes, when his head goes backwards, it's not a great move. On the other hand, I've seen some nice swings from him today.

Many of you are too young to remember the 70's, or weren't even born at that time -- Johnny Miller was known as having a classic reverse (backwards) "C." And no one, I believer, ever accused Johnny of having a reverse pivot.

[Zeph]

Well, a reverse C is often referred to as a reverse pivot, which was why I commented it. I haven't noticed it myself, but if his head moves back, that is not a good move.

If you call a centered head with hips forward a reverse C, which it technically is, then it is a position I would want to achieve. We usually call it secondary axis tilt. Spine is tilted away from the target, because of the hips moving forward, not head moving back. Johnny Miller got his hips very well forward, which was what created the backwards C.

For someone not knowing the difference of a reverse pivot and reverse C, they might do themselves a disfavor by trying to get rid of the C by moving the head forward. It should not be called reverse C at all, as the term can be misinterpreted.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by franky21

why wont you read up on tavistock and see how that course is set up and how those greens are super fast and it is the course the golfers go to to tune up for augusta. That saids alot about the course so read up on something before you make a comment that makes no sense.

What sort of "reading" have you been doing? A bit of tournament promotion, I'm guessing. This is a social event. Tune up for The Masters? You are kidding, right?
Good players love fast greens. Especially when they are soft like these ones. It is target golf. Hardly Augusta.

[sean_miller]

This is the first time I've ever heard a reverse C referred to as a reverse pivot. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by Zeph

Well, a reverse C is often referred to as a reverse pivot . . .

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Well, a reverse C is often referred to as a reverse pivot, which was why I commented it. I haven't noticed it myself, but if his head moves back, that is not a good move.

If you call a centered head with hips forward a reverse C, which it technically is, then it is a position I would want to achieve. We usually call it secondary axis tilt. Spine is tilted away from the target, because of the hips moving forward, not head moving back. Johnny Miller got his hips very well forward, which was what created the backwards C.

For someone not knowing the difference of a reverse pivot and reverse C, they might do themselves a disfavor by trying to get rid of the C by moving the head forward. It should not be called reverse C at all, as the term can be misinterpreted.

I'll go with that ... I'm not an instructor and defer to your knowledge.

I also deferred to the commentators who commented on his swing -- Nobilo and Brandel -- perhaps that was my error.

Tiger looks better -- hitting it a little steep with fairway woods off the tee -- a 180 yd 3 wood a few minutes ago that was supposedly a moon rocket. What's the fix there to shallow him out?

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Tiger looks better -- hitting it a little steep with fairway woods off the tee -- a 180 yd 3 wood a few minutes ago that was supposedly a moon rocket. What's the fix there to shallow him out?

Another one?

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

Another one?

Yep.

But then he hits a 210 6i to 6 ft for birdie (I think -- working and watching is tough work)

His chipping appears out of whack, too. He is coming down from the inside severely on a couple of chips they videoed from the back. I'm sure he'll fix it. It's just different to see his faults so often as he works on his entire game.