The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrvFrShow

He'll say that if he didn't aim to tour pro level he wouldn't have gotten where he did.

AKA, spin & minimizing his failure to become a PGA Tour level player.

Exactly!

[nevets88]

Pieces mention Dan Plan among other adult, I forget the term, "switchers" who try to be the best or high expert at something they've never done before. Now I question just how good those people are, I believe a musican and translator were mentioned in one of the articles. Or maybe Dan Plan is the outlier? I hope.

[DrvFrShow]

Exactly. But then did he have a chance at all? Look at the odds?

I gave piano a second shot when I was 30. I had 15 years under me at the time. I studied with the best teacher available. I was doing phenomenally well until I hit a wall of my own physical limit as to what I could do. It was the fact that I had to work during the day and couldn't dedicate 7 hrs a day to practice in addition to it. I wore out after only 3 hrs. Plus I had neighbors to worry about who needed to go to sleep. I had talent.

When I was 49 I found out what I actually could play, and then it was too late to do anything with it. They don't want "old people" coming on the scene unless you already made a name for yourself. They want cute looking youth. Life goes on.

So now I try golf at 62. lol. I'm crazy. Fortunately I was athletic in my youth.

[Lihu]

Well he is posting stuff. It's interesting reading what he has to say.

http://thedanplan.com/the-most-amazing-week-part-2/

I will say that the second instructor who was quoted as stating that Dan has an "overactive bottom" and needs to work more from his shoulders seemed a little odd. I think Dan needs more power from his hips, but I don't know hot to analyze swings very well.

At the very least it is good to see that he is thinking about things to improve his swing. . .

[nevets88]

Off topic, but Duval (with one L) looks like he lost weight too. Wish he provided more info on lessons part. I just totally skipped through the AT&T; and celeb stuff. I'm all Oscar'd out.

[RFKFREAK]

Well he is posting stuff. It's interesting reading what he has to say. [URL=http://thedanplan.com/the-most-amazing-week-part-2/]http://thedanplan.com/the-most-amazing-week-part-2/[/URL] I will say that the second instructor who was quoted as stating that Dan has an "overactive bottom" and needs to work more from his shoulders seemed a little odd. I think Dan needs more power from his hips, but I don't know hot to analyze swings very well. At the very least it is good to see that he is thinking about things to improve his swing. . .

[Quote] After our 15 minutes backstage, the group was leaving but I kind of “lingered” and got lost and then ended up getting to spend the next couple of hours back there.[/quote] What an asshat. :roll:

[Nosevi]

I will say that the second instructor who was quoted as stating that Dan has an "overactive bottom" and needs to work more from his shoulders seemed a little odd. I think Dan needs more power from his hips, but I don't know hot to analyze swings very well.

I read it more that the instructor was saying that Dan needed to work on having more of a stable base and building his swing around that rather than losing that stability in an attempt to add power by 'firing' his hips. I'm hardly an instructor but I'd say Dan's in danger of adding in inconsistancies to his swing and therefore ball flight by not having that stability in his lower body to work from. just the way I read it.

On a different note, I've just been reading back over this thread a bit, looking at some comments including my own at times and wondering if sometimes we're all being a bit harsh on Dan? (Can hear Shorty shouting "NO!" ). I've been a tad critical about how he's gone about certain aspects of his plan, but that's more a criticism of the Dan Plan than it is a criticism of Dan the man. I do think, at times, he's had some pretty useless advice and if I'm honest I think he's slightly underestimated the mountain you have to climb to do this sort of thing. But I do think he's put in some effort.

Is he currently 6/10th of the way from novice to Tour Pro in terms of improvement? Looking at the graph RandallT did I'd have to say no. But that's not to say he hasn't built a foundation he could work from if (and it's a big "IF") he's willing to change a few things in the way in which he's going about it. I spoke to him a bit ago and suggested he draw a line where he is now, call all before as being 'Phase 1 - build a foundation' and look at everything from now as being 'Phase 2' and make some significant changes. If he hit a given scoring average 18 months ago and he's kept doing the same thing for the last 18 months and it's remained unchanged, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that continuing to do the same for the next 18 months isn't a smart move.

I Personally think he could go quite a bit further. But the Dan Plan Phase 2 needs to be doing something the Dan Plan Phase 1 wasn't doing. That could be working harder or just working 'smarter' (putting in the effort where it will have a tangible benefit) but my guess is it's probably a mixture of the two.

[golf-noob-bruce]

Is he currently 6/10th of the way from novice to Tour Pro in terms of improvement? Looking at the graph RandallT did I'd have to say no.

Not even close.

[RFKFREAK]

On a different note, I've just been reading back over this thread a bit, looking at some comments including my own at times and wondering if sometimes we're all being a bit harsh on Dan? (Can hear Shorty shouting "NO!" :-)  ).

Add me as a person shouting, "no." IMO, Dan is a egomaniac who has turned this, "experiment," into a tool for his own self-promotion. I think he's disingenuous and not being honest with this project.

[Nosevi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosevi

On a different note, I've just been reading back over this thread a bit, looking at some comments including my own at times and wondering if sometimes we're all being a bit harsh on Dan? (Can hear Shorty shouting "NO!"  ).

Add me as a person shouting, "no."

IMO, Dan is a egomaniac who has turned this, "experiment," into a tool for his own self-promotion.

I think he's disingenuous and not being honest with this project.

Am I sensing you don't like the guy?

I think, as Bruce above says, he's not exactly where he needs to be. What I don't know is whether he's being deliberately dishonest with others about that or genuinely doesn't know how good the end state (ie a Tour Pro) is. I practice with a couple of tour pros from time to time so have a fair idea but does Dan know how good a tour pro is? Watching them on the TV is a far cry from having them show you just how far you have to go in person. I know he's played a few holes with one so he *should* know, but do you get the feeling it's sinking in? If he is just using the project for self-promotion, self-promotion for what? If he gets to the end and is nowhere close who's going to take a blind bit of notice of him?

I don't know but it seems to me like he genuinely doesn't know. Guy I practice with shot 7 under from the competiton tees round a course sometimes use for The Open Championship (British Open to you guys) in pretty rubbish conditions the other day. Maybe if he went out with someone like that he'd see that he's not quite where he thinks he is.

[RFKFREAK]

Am I sensing you don't like the guy?

I think, as Bruce above says, he's not exactly where he needs to be. What I don't know is whether he's being deliberately dishonest with others about that or genuinely doesn't know how good the end state (ie a Tour Pro) is. I practice with a couple of tour pros from time to time so have a fair idea but does Dan know how good a tour pro is? Watching them on the TV is a far cry from having them show you just how far you have to go in person. I know he's played a few holes with one so he *should* know, but do you get the feeling it's sinking in? If he is just using the project for self-promotion, self-promotion for what? If he gets to the end and is nowhere close who's going to take a blind bit of notice of him?

I don't know but it seems to me like he genuinely doesn't know. Guy I practice with shot 7 under from the competiton tees round a course sometimes use for The Open Championship (British Open to you guys) in pretty rubbish conditions the other day. Maybe if he went out with someone like that he'd see that he's not quite where he thinks he is.

I didn't have an opinion of him either way when I first heard of this last year but thought it was a cool idea and rooted for him to be successful with this experiment.

However, from what people have posted in this thread, what I've read on his blog, and how much time he spends on media trips/promoting himself, I think he's doing the experiment a disservice and is changing his focus from the experiment to finding a way to satisfy his ego and trying to save face when the 10,000 hours is up while trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes.

[Nosevi]

I didn't have an opinion of him either way when I first heard of this last year but thought it was a cool idea and rooted for him to be successful with this experiment.

However, from what people have posted in this thread, what I've read on his blog, and how much time he spends on media trips/promoting himself, I think he's doing the experiment a disservice and is changing his focus from the experiment to finding a way to satisfy his ego and trying to save face when the 10,000 hours is up while trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes.

I do think the media focus thing is hurting his chances of getting better and told him so a while back. His view is more or less that the whole media/blog/type things is what sets him and his plan apart from others doing similar things (pretty obvious from the way he is going about his plan). I told  him succeeding is what would set him apart. Don't get me wrong, I think he likes the attention, but I don't think he accepts it when I tell him it's killing his chances of some form of success. I'm not sure he does it beacause he's conciously switched focus, more that he doesn't see the harm in it all.

As for pulling the wool over the public's eyes, don't you think he posts too many rounds in the 80s etc on his blog to be doing a very good job of that? I don't follow it day to day but when I have I've constantly see things like "Shot 81 but feels like I'm getting to grip with ..........." or "Shot another, nothing dropped today but my long play was good." or "Shot 80 and just can't get used to these new wedges." It sounds more like someone maintaining an air of optimism, maybe even kidding themselves a tad as to where they are, rather than someone deliberately trying to decieve people otherwise why post all the high scoring rounds in the blog?

Looking at RandallT's graph Dan's average score is currently a shade over 80. Looking at the course ratings of the places and tees he generally plays (just a quick glanse, not going through them all) his handicap over here would be about 2 under his average score so he'd be a 6 but only if his rounds shot in competition had the same average as all his other rounds, my feeling is they're a little higher. Obviously he's under your system where, using the data RandallT collected he'd be about a 4 not a 3.

So yep, I agree there's a small discrepency between the rounds he's shooting and his official handicap, but it's not huge. The only thing he's really doing is still telling people he's getting there when his game's stalled and scoring's plateaued. I think he's getting bad advice constantly trying to get kit to fit his game rather than look at the root cause of things like missing fairways, I think he's making a mistake trying to position himself in the spot light which just distracts him (it would anyone), I think he's being massively 'optimistic' in where he thinks he is if it's what he puts out on his blog etc. But I'm not sure he's being dishonest with others, more not really grasping the reality of how far he has to go himself.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="RFKFREAK" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/2772#post_1109361"] I didn't have an opinion of him either way when I first heard of this last year but thought it was a cool idea and rooted for him to be successful with this experiment.  However, from what people have posted in this thread, what I've read on his blog, and how much time he spends on media trips/promoting himself, I think he's doing the experiment a disservice and is changing his focus from the experiment to finding a way to satisfy his ego and trying to save face when the 10,000 hours is up while trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes. [/QUOTE] I do think the media focus thing is hurting his chances of getting better and told him so a while back. His view is more or less that the whole media/blog/type things is what sets him and his plan apart from others doing similar things (pretty obvious from the way he is going about his plan). I told  him succeeding is what would set him apart. Don't get me wrong, I think he likes the attention, but I don't think he accepts it when I tell him it's killing his chances of some form of success. I'm not sure he does it beacause he's conciously switched focus, more that he doesn't see the harm in it all. As for pulling the wool over the public's eyes, don't you think he posts too many rounds in the 80s etc on his blog to be doing a very good job of that? I don't follow it day to day but when I have I've constantly see things like "Shot 81 but feels like I'm getting to grip with ..........." or "Shot another, nothing dropped today but my long play was good." or "Shot 80 and just can't get used to these new wedges." It sounds more like someone maintaining an air of optimism, maybe even kidding themselves a tad as to where they are, rather than someone deliberately trying to decieve people otherwise why post all the high scoring rounds in the blog? Looking at RandallT's graph Dan's average score is currently a shade over 80. Looking at the course ratings of the places and tees he generally plays (just a quick glanse, not going through them all) his handicap over here would be about 2 under his average score so he'd be a 6 but only if his rounds shot in competition had the same average as all his other rounds, my feeling is they're a little higher. Obviously he's under your system where, using the data RandallT collected he'd be about a 4 not a 3. So yep, I agree there's a small discrepency between the rounds he's shooting and his official handicap, but it's not huge. The only thing he's really doing is still telling people he's getting there when his game's stalled and scoring's plateaued. I think he's getting bad advice constantly trying to get kit to fit his game rather than look at the root cause of things like missing fairways, I think he's making a mistake trying to position himself in the spot light which just distracts him (it would anyone), I think he's being massively 'optimistic' in where he thinks he is if it's what he puts out on his blog etc. But I'm not sure he's being dishonest with others, more not really grasping the reality of how far he has to go himself.

This description is like the expanded Oxford explanation of what I feel as well. He's in uncharted territory for himself, and I think his shorter distances (relative to his handicap) are going to limit his ability to shoot lower. This is probably why he's been stuck at a 4 handicap for 18 months, and why many of us think he shoots to a 6-8. He has a Flightscope, seems like a waste not to be using it to optimize his swing.

[Nosevi]

He has a Flightscope, seems like a waste not to be using it to optimize his swing.

Maybe he is, Lihu, but I've a nagging suspicion that if there were masses of positive results we'd be seeing screen shots plastered all over his blog by now and yet there's not one. I can't for the life of me see a reason for having the ability to show everyone exactly where his long is, bearing in mind all it'd take would be a 2 second screen shot on his ipad, other than it's not quite where he wants to show it is. Flightscope has a 'combine' the same as Trackman. If you wanted to show where you are you'd do post screen shots of your scores and dispersion. He hasn't so I think it's safe to say he doesn't want people to know. I'm not necessarily blaming the guy, it's not where it needs to be and it's human nature not to want to admit to that. [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqW2XOarZiU[/VIDEO]

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

He has a Flightscope, seems like a waste not to be using it to optimize his swing.

Maybe he is, Lihu, but I've a nagging suspicion that if there were masses of positive results we'd be seeing screen shots plastered all over his blog by now and yet there's not one. I can't for the life of me see a reason for having the ability to show everyone exactly where his long is, bearing in mind all it'd take would be a 2 second screen shot on his ipad, other than it's not quite where he wants to show it is.

Flightscope has a 'combine' the same as Trackman. If you wanted to show where you are you'd do post screen shots of your scores and dispersion. He hasn't so I think it's safe to say he doesn't want people to know. I'm not necessarily blaming the guy, it's not where it needs to be and it's human nature not to want to admit to that.

Cool about flightscope also having "Combine". This is a very good metric for performance.

BTW, the golfer pull-shanked a shot left demonstrating the system at 1:14 and she turned around to see if anyone noticed? I guess the narrator/instructor immediately said something about monitoring his student's "not so good shots"

[Nosevi]

Cool about flightscope also having "Combine". This is a very good metric for performance.

BTW, the golfer pull-shanked a shot left demonstrating the system at 1:14 and she turned around to see if anyone noticed? I guess the narrator/instructor immediately said something about monitoring his student's "not so good shots"

Was giving her the benefit of the doubt that she did it deliberately and on cue........ but perhaps you're right

The point is that a combine is a very good metric for performance and yet we're not seeing any. Why? I'm trying to work out how I could measure my performance on my kit against the Trackman combine so I can compare myself to Luke Donald, Justin Rose, other PGA Pros - I want to know. If I was doing The Dan Plan I'd publish it. Even a screen shot of dispersion and ball flight gives an idea (although it can be 'faked' which is why I would always post the data to show no bad shots were deleted just in case anyone was sceptical). Videos, Gamegolf, combines, Flightscope screen shots - they all show what is really going on but those are the things you don't get. The only time you really know what's going on is when competition scores are posted and they haven't been too hot - checked his GHIN today and his two best competition scores are 78 and 80 which doesn't bode particularly well for the other 9 he's been forced to submit (I say "forced" because I'm guessing, like us, if you enter a comp you must submit the card?).

I think the frustration that has lead to some of the resentment in some quatres is far from the 'jealousy' that some reporters have said and more from the fact that the idea of the Dan Plan was that people could follow along with how the guy was doing. But rather than that it's become more and more 'closed' as progress hasn't quite kept up with expectation to the point where the only true measure is how he scores in official competitions which seems to average somewhere close to 9 or 10 over. If you wanted to let people know how you were doing you could but he clearly doesn't. Like I said before, not blaming the guy, just calling it as I see it. A Flightscope for months but not a single screen shot showing how good he is? There simply has to be a reason for that.

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/2790#post_1109516"]   [QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/2772#post_1109451"] He has a Flightscope, seems like a waste not to be using it to optimize his swing.[/QUOTE] Maybe he is, Lihu, but I've a nagging suspicion that if there were masses of positive results we'd be seeing screen shots plastered all over his blog by now and yet there's not one. I can't for the life of me see a reason for having the ability to show everyone exactly where his long is, bearing in mind all it'd take would be a 2 second screen shot on his ipad, other than it's not quite where he wants to show it is. Flightscope has a 'combine' the same as Trackman. If you wanted to show where you are you'd do post screen shots of your scores and dispersion. He hasn't so I think it's safe to say he doesn't want people to know. I'm not necessarily blaming the guy, it's not where it needs to be and it's human nature not to want to admit to that. [/QUOTE] Cool about flightscope also having "Combine". This is a very good metric for performance. BTW, the golfer pull-shanked a shot left demonstrating the system at 1:14 and she turned around to see if anyone noticed? I guess the narrator/instructor immediately said something about monitoring his student's "not so good shots" :-D

How do you pull-shank? Do you mean an OTT shank vs a too in to out shank?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Cool about flightscope also having "Combine". This is a very good metric for performance.

BTW, the golfer pull-shanked a shot left demonstrating the system at 1:14 and she turned around to see if anyone noticed? I guess the narrator/instructor immediately said something about monitoring his student's "not so good shots"

How do you pull-shank? Do you mean an OTT shank vs a too in to out shank?

I have no idea, I just pulled that term out of a hat. I'm still trying to figure out how she got that ball flight?

Then we find out that there is someone lying on the ground tossing the ball to the left when she hits him in the head. . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Cool about flightscope also having "Combine". This is a very good metric for performance.

The point is that a combine is a very good metric for performance and yet we're not seeing any. Why? I'm trying to work out how I could measure my performance on my kit against the Trackman combine so I can compare myself to Luke Donald, Justin Rose, other PGA Pros - I want to know. If I was doing The Dan Plan I'd publish it. Even a screen shot of dispersion and ball flight gives an idea (although it can be 'faked' which is why I would always post the data to show no bad shots were deleted just in case anyone was sceptical). Videos, Gamegolf, combines, Flightscope screen shots - they all show what is really going on but those are the things you don't get. The only time you really know what's going on is when competition scores are posted and they haven't been too hot - checked his GHIN today and his two best competition scores are 78 and 80 which doesn't bode particularly well for the other 9 he's been forced to submit (I say "forced" because I'm guessing, like us, if you enter a comp you must submit the card?).

I think the frustration that has lead to some of the resentment in some quatres is far from the 'jealousy' that some reporters have said and more from the fact that the idea of the Dan Plan was that people could follow along with how the guy was doing. But rather than that it's become more and more 'closed' as progress hasn't quite kept up with expectation to the point where the only true measure is how he scores in official competitions which seems to average somewhere close to 9 or 10 over. If you wanted to let people know how you were doing you could but he clearly doesn't. Like I said before, not blaming the guy, just calling it as I see it. A Flightscope for months but not a single screen shot showing how good he is? There simply has to be a reason for that.

Either that or he's really really bad with technology, and has no idea how to set it up. . .