The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Lihu]

 

29 minutes ago, natureboy said:

This was not the tournament I was referring to. His first tournament in 2012. What did he shoot in this tournament? When did he play in it?

 

It was the 26th OR Amateur played in August 2014 that @nevets88 posted earlier! He shot 87 and 80 which as you estimated earlier sounds like a 7HC and not the 2-3HC he claimed. Remember that during the the same time frame, he shot his 70 on his home course while regularly shooting below 75 there from the blue tees.

http://thedanplan.com/trending-stats-and-graphs/

Furthermore, he wrote about a few situations that sounded like he was encountering them for the first time which questioned if he should play the shot as it lay or not. Definitely does not sound like the ramblings of a 2-3HC or even any single digit player I know of. . .

Basically, I am doubting that he ever made 2-3HC, and doubt that he shot 70 strictly by the ROG. Not saying he was dishonest about it, just ignorant about all the intricate ROG.

BTW, could you post a link to that 2012 tournament? For some reason, I thought this was his first tournament?

[natureboy]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

It was the OR Amateur that @nevets88 posted earlier! He shot 87 and 80 which as you estimated earlier sounds like a 7HC and not the 2-3HC he claimed. Remember that during the same time frame, he shot his 70 on his home course while regularly shooting below 75 there from the blue tees.

The tournament I mentioned was his very first on the Ghost Creek course when he was a 7 in 2012. What was his home course when he shot 70?

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Not saying he was dishonest about it, just ignorant about all the intricate ROG.

Well clearly to protect yourself, you should start hiring a posse of rules guys to follow you around and give you rulings. Right "not a cheater - just ignorant of the rules". That's about as generous as offering someone sugar-coated s$%t.

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

BTW, could you post a link to that 2012 tournament? For some reason, I thought this was his first tournament?

Not until you link to his post about scoring low while playing 'casual golf' or 'casual with the rules'.

[iacas]

36 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I was speaking of the general tenor of most posters here and what I perceive as the 'insider's club'. You may personally not have been negative toward Dan's project.

No you weren't.

19 hours ago, natureboy said:

Erik and Phil don't like him and want him to fail.

Your words, right there.

36 minutes ago, natureboy said:

But I am saying that given the number of your site colleagues who have that it was reasonable for Dan not to accept your offer as it involved a move across country let alone the potential trust issues.

You're misremembering too much to detail, but generally… no. Dan was planning to come out and then… just didn't. He may have injured himself around the time he broke off talks.

I don't like or dislike the guy. Never met him. Nor do I want him to fail. Your post was garbage - lies and assumptions.

Nor do I think @Phil McGleno thinks either of those things.

And that doesn't even begin to touch on your problem that you think there is an "insider's club" here, or that there is some sort of groupthink. Maybe you're just frequently on the "other" side of the argument from reasonable people who are expressing their own opinions.

Finally, "negative" is not always bad. Sometimes it's perfectly reasonable. When someone posts here and says "I'm breaking 90 after only a year of playing golf… can I turn pro?" - the reaction is and should be relatively negative, because that is completely reasonable.

36 minutes ago, natureboy said:

You may be an unequivocal professional as an instructor, but quotes from your colleague, @Phil McGleno, "The Dan Plan is Dead!" in huge bold letters would reasonably inspire doubts for Dan about your offer.

More lies, albeit more subtle:

1. The words are bold, but they're not big. They're normal-sized.

2. The post immediately before it says "no update to the 10,000 hours countdown since the beginning of May." The post was made September 15th.

Since your bullshit post, I've looked back at several of @Phil McGleno's posts in this topic and think you're probably wrong about his feelings toward Dan and his success, too.

[Phil McGleno]

Ha ha ha ha ha-I love being told what I think and how I feel by people I have never met or talked to.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Phil McGleno said:

Ha ha ha ha ha-I love being told what I think and how I feel by people I have never met or talked to.

Shush. You'll ruin a good conspiracy theory with simple, basic facts…

[collapse]

Just now, Phil McGleno said:

Ha ha ha ha ha-I love being told what I think and how I feel by people I have never met or talked to.

You do exhibit a negative tendency towards those outside the traditional golf paradigm....I'm not sure your name alone can justify that.

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Well clearly to protect yourself, you should start hiring a posse of rules guys to follow you around and give you rulings. Right "not a cheater - just ignorant of the rules". That's about as generous as offering someone sugar-coated s$%t.'.

You're either missing or ignoring the point of my posts. He's claiming to be a 2-3HC but actually plays to a 7HC or higher. That's it. He's not a 2-3HC and never was. . .

[newtogolf]

10 minutes ago, collapse said:

You do exhibit a negative tendency towards those outside the traditional golf paradigm....I'm not sure your name alone can justify that.

Why don't you provide some examples as I haven't seen Phil do any such thing.  Phil, like most of us, calls out people who make claims or spew bad information without proof or support for their argument.  Phil just tends to be a bit harsher than others.

[Phil McGleno]

23 minutes ago, collapse said:

You do exhibit a negative tendency towards those outside the traditional golf paradigm....I'm not sure your name alone can justify that.

Dead wrong.

[collapse]

13 minutes ago, Lihu said:

You're either missing or ignoring the point of my posts. He's claiming to be a 2-3HC but actually plays to a 7HC or higher. That's it. He's not a 2-3HC and never was. . .

Newtogolf......I don't why I am getting a Lihu quote but I can't get rid of it....anyway,Phil said the Dan plan was dead..did he not?...it still has 4000 hr to go. 

[newtogolf]

3 minutes ago, collapse said:

Newtogolf......I don't why I am getting a Lihu quote but I can't get rid of it....anyway,Phil said the Dan plan was dead..did he not?...it still has 4000 hr to go.

I believe it's dead too, but that isn't due because Dan is utilizing methods outside the traditional golf paradigm.

Dan is beyond 50% of his allotted hours and isn't a scratch golfer.  It is my belief (and others ) that it will take more time for him to go from scratch to +4 - +5  (rough handicap of a PGA Tour Pro) than it did for him to get to -4.

In addition, Dan lacks the swing speed that most pro's have which will make his goal of becoming a PGA Tour pro even less likely.    

[natureboy]

50 minutes ago, iacas said:

No you weren't.

Your words, right there.

Sorry for ascribing negativity to you incorrectly, then. My error was ascribing a tacit approval to your general silence on the accusations made in the thread. You just didn't care one way or the other. Got it.

Quote

Finally, "negative" is not always bad. Sometimes it's perfectly reasonable. When someone posts here and says "I'm breaking 90 after only a year of playing golf… can I turn pro?" - the reaction is and should be relatively negative, because that is completely reasonable.

That's actually a fair point. But dispassionate dose of reality is not the same as bashing someone. As far as negativity toward Dan the one thing I do agree with was his sarcastic 'world's cheapest billboard' comment. Very ungrateful. That flaw doesn't imply he is a cheat to me though as some (not you) have asserted when other explanations are equally or more likely. Dan could have used a lot less rose-tinted perspective from the very beginning.

Quote

More lies, albeit more subtle:

1. The words are bold, but they're not big. They're normal-sized.

That post has been modified from its original appearance. I have a very clear visual memory of it, because it struck me as particularly obnoxious and quite in contrast to your generous offer as Phil's colleague to help Dan. Of course on this site I'm sure mods are unable to edit old posts.

37 minutes ago, Lihu said:

You're either missing or ignoring the point of my posts. He's claiming to be a 2-3HC but actually plays to a 7HC or higher. That's it. He's not a 2-3HC and never was. . .

His 86 for the Oregon Amateur Qualifier was on a course normally rated at 73.2 and it could have been made 'tournament tough'. That said an 86 is a disappointing score and (if it was an average score across multiple rounds) maybe equvalent to a 10 HCP. Poor tournament play still doesn't mean he's lied about his HCP scores, when a simpler explanation is that he stinks in tournaments. His early tournament rounds were fairly in line with his posted HCPs. I haven't looked at recent results.

Do all the young phenoms you know play to their HCP or better in every tournament round? Didn't one of them reach a +.5 and then regress to a 2? There's ups and downs to individual rounds. Is this further proof Dan is unlikely to reach his ultimate goal, yes. But to me it doesn't follow that he's lying about his scores. If the question is, 'is Dan being cagey about his current HCP in some interviews?', I agree. That's a legitimate knock against him.

Edited December 15, 2015 by natureboy

[collapse]

The Dan tournament results are a red herring.No one has shown his HC less valid than 23 million others.

Edited December 15, 2015 by collapse

[natureboy]

11 hours ago, Lihu said:

Maximum 2HC is permitted to participate. If he were a 7 and kept a genuine 2 from signing up, that would be pretty bad.

The rules on Oregon Amateur qualifier registration says 5 HCPs or better are eligible. Save your fingers, I know you don't think Dan has a legitimate 5 HCP either.

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, collapse said:

The Dan tournament results is a red herring.No one has shown his HC less valid than 23 million others.

Not all of the 23 million handicaps are valid. I know plenty with vanity caps.

28 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Sorry for ascribing negativity to you incorrectly, then. My error was ascribing a tacit approval to your general silence on the accusations made in the thread. You just didn't care one way or the other. Got it.

Give me a break. I don't read or participate in every ever made on this site. It's incredibly stupid to read into "general silence." Also, you said I (and Phil) actively "dislike" him and want to see him "fail." So no, stop trying to change the story. Nobody who can read will buy it.

28 minutes ago, natureboy said:

But dispassionate dose of reality is not the same as bashing someone.

Please find where I have bashed Dan. Or where others in this cabal you allege have done so. Your opinion is not aligning with reality.

28 minutes ago, natureboy said:

That post has been modified from its original appearance. I have a very clear visual memory of it, because it struck me as particularly obnoxious and quite in contrast to your generous offer as Phil's colleague to help Dan. Of course on this site I'm sure mods are unable to edit old posts.

That post has not been touched since it was imported several months ago onto this platform. If a mod edited it, there would be a note. Even if an admin had it would have a note. I don't care to spend the time to look at the old Huddler database.

You're skirting the issue, too: the post responds to a thing saying there hadn't been an update to hourly countdown in over four months. Calling it "dead" seems pretty reasonable.

28 minutes ago, natureboy said:

His 86 for the Oregon Amateur Qualifier was on a course normally rated at 73.2 and it could have been made 'tournament tough'. That said an 86 is a disappointing score and (if it was an average score across multiple rounds) maybe equvalent to a 10 HCP. Poor tournament play still doesn't mean he's lied about his HCP scores, when a simpler explanation is that he stinks in tournaments. His early tournament rounds were fairly in line with his posted HCPs. I haven't looked at recent results.

It is a point of evidence, and it supports the theory or opinion that his handicap is a shade of "vanity." I haven't given it enough thought to even come to my own opinion on that (nor am I likely to do so), but it's a point of evidence. Definitive? No.

I don't care much about what his handicap is, though, so that's all I've got to say on that. Please try not to take my silence as implicitly endorsing anything.

P.S. If Dan's a "bad tournament player," then… that's also a reason to be realistically negative about his chances to succeed.

P.P.S. I've got better things to do than go on about your gross mischaracterization of what my "silence" or posts mean, btw. That's the end of that line of discussion. Go back to talking about The Dan Plan, not what you think other people were saying by not saying anything about The Dan Plan.

[Pretzel]

Just now, iacas said:

P.S. If Dan's a "bad tournament player," then… that's also a reason to be realistically negative about his chances to succeed.

This is the important part. Dan's handicap doesn't matter for his plan, because his goal has everything to do with tournament play. Therefore the only thing that should matter, to us and to him, is his "tournament handicap" that is created using only tournament scores, since those are the conditions he wants to face as a pro.

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

This is the important part. Dan's handicap doesn't matter for his plan, because his goal has everything to do with tournament play. Therefore the only thing that should matter, to us and to him, is his "tournament handicap" that is created using only tournament scores, since those are the conditions he wants to face as a pro.

Maybe the pressure of this realization is why his tournament play has gotten even worse? He clearly has a driver issue and this is a big factor for success in limited round competition on courses set up for tournaments. IMO, not accounting for the difference in tournament vs. normal stroke play was another oversight of his in setting his original goal.

[Pretzel]

5 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Maybe the pressure of this realization is why his tournament play has gotten even worse? He clearly has a driver issue and this is a big factor for success in limited round competition on courses set up for tournaments. IMO, not accounting for the difference in tournament vs. normal stroke play was another oversight of his in setting his original goal.

He honestly just needs to go play in more tournaments though, rather than quit playing in them entirely. The problem that Dan has is he can't easily garner support without success, but he can't have a hope of success (not really on the PGA, that's not happening at all, but at any level in general) without having some kind of support to be able to afford it.

Golf is expensive, he should've kept some kind of job while attempting his plan.