Letting multiple groups play through

[ochmude]

A scenario popped up during a round this past weekend that made a question come to mind for me, so I figured I would present it to the group to see what everyone thought.  Basically, if your group is moving at a snails pace, how do you let groups behind you play through when they are stacked up?  I've read numerous times that if there is a gap in front of you, you should let the group behind you play through.  But what if there is not a gap behind that group?  If you're Group A, and Group B is waiting on you, and there's room in front of you, you should let B play through.  But Group C is right behind Group B since B was being held up by you.  So you let B play through, but while you're waiting for B to move far enough past you to allow you to continue to play, Group C catches up to you.  So now you're holding up Group C, and Group D is also right behind them.  Do you just keep letting groups play through until you find some room to slide back in and commence play?

We all know that a slow group holds up play for the entire course behind them.  Everyone says the answer is for that slow group to let people play through.  But then the slow group is still holding up the entire course, except for one group that played through.  What's the correct course of action in this situation to be most in keeping with proper etiquette? For the sake of this scenario, please assume that "just speed up" is not an viable answer.  If that was possible, Group A wouldn't be needing to let people play through in the first place.  Thank you.

[Yukari]

Even though you say "speed up" is not a viable option, it is the ONLY option you have.  Your group's position is--as "Rick the Fourputt" always says--is directly behind the group in front not directly in front of the group behind.

You guys need to either skip a hole and catch up to the group in front or speed up.  No other option because your group has already held up the entire course.

Personally, I would tell the people in my group that "we need to pick up the pace".

[rustyredcab]

Letting groups play through does not solve the problem for anyone but the groups you let through. And as you said, there is an unlimited supply of groups behind you.

The answer is for your slow group to pick up the pace. If it because of beginners, try moving the tee shots to the 150 yard marker for a hole or two -- or maybe even picking a more forward tee for a few holes would help. Play ready golf. Watch everyone else's ball all the way down. Be generous giving putts. Set a max for putts (we use 4) and a max for the hole (in a large group that plays once a year and has slow guys, we use gross two times par as our max on every hole.) Play match-play and when you are out of a hole, put it in your pocket. I know it is hard. People pay their money and want to play every shot no matter what. My Saturday group plays in 4:15 - 4:30. Never 4:35 and never 3:55. There is almost nothing that will speed us up to under 4:00. I think it is just a bad match of guys -- I'm fast to the green where others may be slow and I can be slower on the greens where they play faster (want me to putt faster, concede the 3 footers). Alone, in a cart, I play 18 holes in less than 2 hours. I've played with guys who can not play fast -- sometimes physical and sometimes mental. It drives me nuts and I usually play like poop because I am so worried about pace of play and holding up groups behind us.

[sean_miller]

If the group ahead lost you it could just be because they're rabbits and you got an early or twilight tee time. If you're unlucky enough to have a group of rabbits behind you, then they're probably all locals and the starter could have either warned you or had you swap places. The good news in that scenario is there would probably be a hole (or two) gap behind that group chasing you and letting them play through would be a no-brainer.

In your scenario though,. it appears you're part of a herd of grazing waterbuffalo. Sorry to say it, but someone in your group (or all of you) need to put your head down and get angry at yourselves. The next step is either putting your ball in your pocket for a hole and hauling ass to catch up immediately, or walking/riding/pushing and golfing really fast. Ready golf, continuous putting, 3 foot gimmes, no mullies, just hit and go. No apologies - just move it.

Originally Posted by ochmude

A scenario popped up during a round this past weekend that made a question come to mind for me, so I figured I would present it to the group to see what everyone thought.  Basically, if your group is moving at a snails pace, how do you let groups behind you play through when they are stacked up?  I've read numerous times that if there is a gap in front of you, you should let the group behind you play through.  But what if there is not a gap behind that group?  If you're Group A, and Group B is waiting on you, and there's room in front of you, you should let B play through.  But Group C is right behind Group B since B was being held up by you.  So you let B play through, but while you're waiting for B to move far enough past you to allow you to continue to play, Group C catches up to you.  So now you're holding up Group C, and Group D is also right behind them.  Do you just keep letting groups play through until you find some room to slide back in and commence play?

We all know that a slow group holds up play for the entire course behind them.  Everyone says the answer is for that slow group to let people play through.  But then the slow group is still holding up the entire course, except for one group that played through.  What's the correct course of action in this situation to be most in keeping with proper etiquette? For the sake of this scenario, please assume that "just speed up" is not an viable answer.  If that was possible, Group A wouldn't be needing to let people play through in the first place.  Thank you.

[ochmude]

To add a bit more detail to the specific situation this weekend, my usually golfing buddy and I were playing a round with his dad and one of his dad's friends.  My buddy and I are pretty bad, so it just plain takes us awhile to get from tee to green.  We, however, strive to be as courteous as possible to other groups and constantly offer to let other groups play through.  It's usually not too much of an issue, though, as we pickup if we reach ESC and have just given up completely on looking for balls and just drop and go if we can't find our ball within just a few seconds of searching, so we can always quickly get caught up when the need arises.

The other two guys we played with this weekend were slow as well, but not nearly as courteous.  They definitely had the "I'm a paying customer so it's my right to be here" type of attitude.  They were also both in their 50's, while my buddy and I are both 27.  The fact that they were twice our age and one of them was my friend father made it awkward, to say the least, to try to insist that they speed up, pick up, or let others play through.  A few time's I just casually looked back at all the groups stacking up behind us and said something like "Man, there are a lot of people on the course today.  I think I'm just gonna pick up to help the pace a bit."  That would be met with what could most accurately be described as a scolding from the older guys.  After the last time I mentioned our pace the other guy (not my friend's dad but the fourth in our group) actually told me to "quit bitching and stop trying to play speed golf."  Then he said if we let one group play through we'd have to let the whole damn course play through (proving he was also aware of how fricken slow we were moving, btw).  It definitely wasn't the the most fun position to be in, so I just sorta kept my head down and played out the round.  But it got me thinking about how to best handle a situation where EVERYONE is waiting on you.  I honestly was at the point where I would have been willing to take a seat at a tee box, play some poker on my cell phone (silenced of course), and let everyone play through until a gap appeared.

[zeg]

While the above posts nail the ideal situation---catch up somehow---if that's not an option for some reason, here's my take.  Just because you let the first group through doesn't give you any obligation to let the next group through.  Once the first group is through, you don't have a gap any more, so keep your position and FFS keep up with the group you just let through.  If you lose a place again, then you can let the next group through (or, really to be honest, probably get off the course or identify and eliminate the problem in your group because that shouldn't happen twice).  If there's just a couple groups behind and then an obvious gap, then maybe let a couple groups through, but otherwise I'd take them one at a time.

[BostonSully]

If your a group of begginners trying to the learn the game and this situation pops up you coulds always suggest that you play best ball. You all hit a ball but you all take a drop wherever the person who hit  the best ball out of the group ended up. This should have even a group of 4 begginners shooting 4-5's on mostly all the holes. Its also good for your confidence as you dont have to dwell on every bad hit and can move up and play from a more desirable position.

[Ctp722]

As a 26 year old I can really relate to this, holy sh*t i feel bad for you in this situation. Not really sure what I would've done but it sounds awful.

Luckily thought my dad and I move on the golf course and do not hold anyone up.

I've played with other older guys from work and I just tell them I refuse to play with them if they're going to act like that. Especially if they want to play where I am a member.

Originally Posted by ochmude

To add a bit more detail to the specific situation this weekend, my usually golfing buddy and I were playing a round with his dad and one of his dad's friends.  My buddy and I are pretty bad, so it just plain takes us awhile to get from tee to green.  We, however, strive to be as courteous as possible to other groups and constantly offer to let other groups play through.  It's usually not too much of an issue, though, as we pickup if we reach ESC and have just given up completely on looking for balls and just drop and go if we can't find our ball within just a few seconds of searching, so we can always quickly get caught up when the need arises.

The other two guys we played with this weekend were slow as well, but not nearly as courteous.  They definitely had the "I'm a paying customer so it's my right to be here" type of attitude.  They were also both in their 50's, while my buddy and I are both 27.  The fact that they were twice our age and one of them was my friend father made it awkward, to say the least, to try to insist that they speed up, pick up, or let others play through.  A few time's I just casually looked back at all the groups stacking up behind us and said something like "Man, there are a lot of people on the course today.  I think I'm just gonna pick up to help the pace a bit."  That would be met with what could most accurately be described as a scolding from the older guys.  After the last time I mentioned our pace the other guy (not my friend's dad but the fourth in our group) actually told me to "quit bitching and stop trying to play speed golf."  Then he said if we let one group play through we'd have to let the whole damn course play through (proving he was also aware of how fricken slow we were moving, btw).  It definitely wasn't the the most fun position to be in, so I just sorta kept my head down and played out the round.  But it got me thinking about how to best handle a situation where EVERYONE is waiting on you.  I honestly was at the point where I would have been willing to take a seat at a tee box, play some poker on my cell phone (silenced of course), and let everyone play through until a gap appeared.

[anotherday]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

In your scenario though,. it appears you're part of a herd of grazing waterbuffalo.

+1

I play with my parents also and they are sloooooww. When I picked up golf two years ago I also picked up some bad habits in the pace of play department. After playing with other people I've found that it isn't necessarily rude to hit your shot, pick up your bag, and start walking to your ball (provided you have the opportunity to do so without getting in someones way). Same goes when you have a cart.. I've been shooting my shot and hopping in the cart with my club to drive immediately to my playing partner's ball. While he/she is getting their club out and setting their shot up, I'm cleaning the club I just hit with and tossing it in my bag.

Sometimes the best way to speed up the flow of the game without outwardly telling someone "you're slow!" is to just nudge the process along on your own. In this case, you're saying that you are the slower player.. thats alright.. just accept that balls hit out of bounds are most likely lost. Thats why when you go looking for your ball, you find about 10 others too. Those are shots from people that understand that the pace of play would be largely affected if they had to put their hiking boots on to find their errant shot.

[vagolfjunkie]

I see where you're coming from.  I've been in a group with the "paying customer" syndrome.  I am all for getting your money's worth but some people are just hard headed.  How they can enjoy a round of golf with 8 people standing on the tee box watching them is beyond me.  Only thing you can do is wave the next group through without consulting your partners and then ride up and tell them to get the f* out of the way.  Yeah, they might bitch you out but at least I don't have 16 angry guys behind me with sticks watching my every stinking move on the course.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by ochmude

To add a bit more detail to the specific situation this weekend, my usually golfing buddy and I were playing a round with his dad and one of his dad's friends.

I was in a situation like this last year and I know how you felt.  Me and my brother played with a couple older Asian gentlemen.  They spoke English well enough for us to communicate with them that there was a group directly behind us that they acknowledged, but not well enough for me to know if they understood what I was implying to them.  My brother is a decent player but he plays slower than I do, so I'm used to letting him know when we need to pick up the pace.  Our playing partners were worse players than us, but also incredibly slow.  Lining up every putt 2-3 times, backing off of shots, and then shanking them badly.

Since our partners weren't picking up their pace, I did everything I could to play faster, but when I'm already the fastest player in the group, that doesn't help much.  Eventually I held up our group after teeing off and told the group behind us to play through.  I do believe our playing partners were highly offended.  It wasn't very cordial after that.  As well, it didn't do a lot of good as the gap between the next group and us was made up very quickly and I was quickly in the same predicament.  I ended up sacrificing my round because of them.  I didn't play the last few holes and instead took to essentially caddying my brother's round and helping him with his game.

Anyway, back to your initial question.  I think at some point you could have flagged down the Marshall and asked him to let you know how many groups were piled up behind you.  If he says there are 3 groups behind, with a gap after them, then maybe you COULD have sat down for a while and smelled the roses.  If not, your only choice was to play speed golf (figuratively speaking), have somebody start sacrificing for the greater good, or turn it into a scramble/best ball thing.

Brandon

[Shanker]

I was in a similar situation last week Friday...It's a course with 3 9holes.  The front 9 was a breeze as there was only 3 of us, whom plays pretty good and moving at a good pace...The 4th person, my brother, a hacker/newbie joined us on the back 9.  While we we're all walking with push carts, come the 12th we weren't able to keep up pace with the group in front of us...My bro will take 6-7 shots to get to the green.  So as I see the groups behind us catching up and waiting, I see the ranger rolling by with a group of 4 on carts around us...I was ok with it knowing we are walkers...but the one group that was behind them starting cussing out my bro to pick up his ball and move to the green...of course my bro was ticked off, I was a bit irritated but I told him to just pick up the pace, hit your ball and move on.  The ranger eventually came back to my bro telling him to move along as the 3 of us were on the green and he was about 75yds back...

What piss'd me off after the fact was the guys cussing out my brother were hackers and they couldn't keep up with us while on gas carts...Anyways I told my bro, you need to get some lessons in order to really enjoy the nice clubs/ courses :)  All smiles after that!

[Ringworld]

Just telling your buddies to quicken is pace is fine but honestly if you're that behind, letting one group ahead of you then trying to keep up should be enough.  If you still fall behind, then let another group through.  Your buddies will eventually get the message.  But letting a whole bunch of groups after you is not wise.  It's like getting stuck in a transition lane when all the oncoming traffic just plain ignores the fact you are trying to merge.

On a lighter note.  Let them suffer LOL.  Misery LOVES company ROFL

[rustyredcab]

anotherday has a great tip. I'm an old guy in my 50s. :) At my father's club, all the even older-than-me guys carry their club in the cart until they get to the first ball. When they hit an approach shot, they get in the cart with that club and wait to clean it and bag it. Noone stands behind a cart after a shot cleaning a club, replacing a headcover, and putting the club in the bag. They do that kind of stuff when someone else is getting ready to play. Same with putters after leaving the green. I got chewed out the first time I hit a drive and walked to the cart and put my headcover on.  Of course they never loose a ball and that helps them all play fast despite their ages and abilities.

[newtogolf]

Tough spot to be playing with your friends dad and his friend and they being the cause of the slowdown.  There's no easy answer there given they were either oblivious or indifferent to the impact they were having on other groups.  Unfortunately I've found that the same guys that feel entitled to play the game at their pace are also the first ones to complain when they actually encounter a group slower than they are.

It doesn't sound like you had much fun that day, so I'd avoid playing with them again, or at least not on busy days or times.