Tiger the Dream Crusher...

[deasy55]

I'm waiting for someone to tell me that Nick Faldo wasn't very well known until he became a golf analyst for CBS

[senorchipotle]

who?

[Leftygolfer]

I have been a big golf fan for a long time and I know who is good on the Euro tour.  But unless you have watched it and followed it, you probably wouldn't know those guys.

But you really think Phil and Ernie are more physically gifted??  That is crazy.  Tiger had the perfect golf build, was the greatest junior player, and was a scratch golfer at some rediculously young age.  Both those guys had all the opportunities (if not more) and their careers equal his combined.  FYI I like both of them way more than I like tiger.

[senorchipotle]

i second the tiger as more physically gifted. he could have gone to college running track or golf, don't think the same could be said for ernie or phil. put it this way, who would you rather have on your basketball team?

[ghalfaire]

I read most of the back and forth on the "anti European" part of the discussion and have an opinion.  I think we Americans are a competitive people and would surely like to see Americans from the PGA tour in all the top ten spots.  That doesn't make us "anti European", we're just rooting for the home team.  I don't, and don't believe most Americans, under estimate the ability of the European top players and appreciate good golf no matter who is playing it.   But I would still rather see the USA in the top spots and believe that will happen again.  But if you really think the USA is anti European you don't know your own history very well.  Golf is just a game and we root for the home guys all the time, but we don' t under appreciate the competition nor do we root against them.  After all I think most of us, but certainly not all,  have European roots.  I'm a second generation American myself and still have family in the "old country".   Erin go Bragh!    Sorry if I got off subject but believe I answered the OP in a round about way.

Originally Posted by deasy55

Another anti European I see. They seem to be popping up all over the place lately

[deasy55]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I read most of the back and forth on the "anti European" part of the discussion and have an opinion.  I think we Americans are a competitive people and would surely like to see Americans from the PGA tour in all the top ten spots.  That doesn't make us "anti European", we're just rooting for the home team.  I don't, and don't believe most Americans, under estimate the ability of the European top players and appreciate good golf no matter who is playing it.   But I would still rather see the USA in the top spots and believe that will happen again.  But if you really think the USA is anti European you don't know your own history very well.  Golf is just a game and we root for the home guys all the time, but we don' t under appreciate the competition nor do we root against them.  After all I think most of us, but certainly not all,  have European roots.  I'm a second generation American myself and still have family in the "old country".   Erin go Bragh!    Sorry if I got off subject but believe I answered the OP in a round about way.

I'm sorry but someone saying that nobody would have ever heard of McDowell, Kaymer and Donald if Tiger was still in his prime is both a ridiculous statement and anti European. If he had mentioned various players then fair enough....but he decided to mention 3 of the top European players. I will leave it at this but I am disappointed to say the least.

[Bigtank]

Originally Posted by deasy55

I'm sorry but someone saying that nobody would have ever heard of McDowell, Kaymer and Donald if Tiger was still in his prime is both a ridiculous statement and anti European. If he had mentioned various players then fair enough....but he decided to mention 3 of the top European players. I will leave it at this but I am disappointed to say the least.

" I was merely pointing out that some lesser known players have had an opportunity to come to the forefront due to Tiger's absence.  I could have used Stricker, Kuchar, Casey, or Mark Wilson just as easy.  I simply used them because they are the hot topic players."

Why are European's so sensitive and defensive?  I think Donald is a wonderful talent, but he would not have been #1, no would have Kaymer or Westwood.

I am not "anti-European", I love the global talent influx.  The Austral-Asian tours, South-African, and South American players are great for the game.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by deasy55

I'm sorry but someone saying that nobody would have ever heard of McDowell, Kaymer and Donald if Tiger was still in his prime is both a ridiculous statement and anti European.

I disagree.

Now, let's move on and get back to the original topic.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by deasy55

I'm sorry but someone saying that nobody would have ever heard of McDowell, Kaymer and Donald if Tiger was still in his prime is both a ridiculous statement and anti European. If he had mentioned various players then fair enough....but he decided to mention 3 of the top European players. I will leave it at this but I am disappointed to say the least.

I think you read way too much into his picking a few examples of players who have done well recently.  Yes, they happened to be European, but I don't think that was why he picked them out.  No need to make it more than it is.  The point is there are probably more than a few golfers getting attention simply because there are more people winning when it's not Woods every week.

On topic, I'm sure it's frustrating competing with someone as dominant as Woods was.  Good competitors appreciate a challenge, but at the end of the day it's discouraging to lose repeatedly, and perhaps moreso to the same guy over and over.  I'd think, even if you're friends with Woods, at some level you have to be jealous of his success, even if you've had your own great successes.  Doesn't mean you don't like him, just that you'd rather be the guy doing the winning.

There are studies that show that people aren't content just having "enough," they're more satisfied when they have more than their peers, even when they're worse off in the absolute.  Basically, people have an innate drive to come out ahead.  This is massively overinterpreting those studies, but it could suggest the fact that Els might have earned more thanks to having Woods raising interest in golf is less consolation than it "should be" since he looks over and sees that he's "losing" relative to him.  Completely irrational, but I think we can all relate on some level.

But it's not fair to single out Woods as the "Dream Crusher."  Every era has its dominant figure.  Only one golfer can be the dominant best at a time, and I have a bit of trouble being too sympathetic to Els' plight given the success he's had.  I'd say he's lived the dream pretty well, even if not quite everything went his way!

[ghalfaire]

Well my answer to the OP is I believe the other pros in the Tiger era felt like they better get back to the practice tees and fitness trailer and get a lot better if they expected to win again.  I doubt they resented Tiger but were rather inspired to raise their game to be competitive.  Any other attitude  would have been destructive and the PGA touring pros are not put together that way or they wouldn't be there.

[B-Con]

When I think of a dominance like Tiger's, I think of other sports dominated by one player or team. There are some periods like that in the NBA, like the Celtics/Lakers run. If you weren't on the Celtics or Lakers, it pretty much sucked to be you. I remember reading more than one "outside" player's semi-resentment toward those that dominated. Not that they hate them for being good, but for ensuring that almost no one else got championship rings for a decade. It's unfortunate when your career happens to fall in the middle of someone else's reign. Everyone wants certain trophies to decorate their mantle. The flip side, though, is that a couple of challengers to the dominator will be remembered. Not everyone who wins a major gets remembered for forever, but if you're one of the two or three people who constantly fought the seemingly omnipotent dominator, your name may be recorded better than if you'd simply won a couple more times. The down side to that, though, is that there are only a couple of spots for being the arch-rival. Everyone else doesn't win or get to be remembered as the arch-rival. At least they get to learn from the best and their battles will make for cool stories to tell their grandkids. :-D

[BunkerBuster]

His game isn't the reason they don't like him. It's his personality and morals (lack of).

[iacas]

Originally Posted by BunkerBuster

His game isn't the reason they don't like him. It's his personality and morals (lack of).

Thanks for sharing. Perhaps one day you'll make a post that can't be summarized as "I hate Tiger Woods."

[Pablo McGheesio]

Other Pros hate tiger because he is probably the father of several of their childs.

Seriously though Americans seem to be obsessed with having all their sports stars talk rubbish about God and family all the time. Tiger did all that crap so it made his downfall even more funny

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

Well my answer to the OP is I believe the other pros in the Tiger era felt like they better get back to the practice tees and fitness trailer and get a lot better if they expected to win again.  I doubt they resented Tiger but were rather inspired to raise their game to be competitive.  Any other attitude  would have been destructive and the PGA touring pros are not put together that way or they wouldn't be there.

100% agree that Tiger inspired some of his fellow pros to raise their fitness level.  I also think that the world-wide publicity and big purses that Tiger contributed to has attracted more good athletes to the game of golf world-wide...one of the reasons why there are so many non-Americans doing well- not a slip in the level of play from US youth, but rather a greater interest in the game among the youth of other countries.

[ND Fan]

I have no problem with the euro's.  I like good golf and they seem to have their fair share.  The European tour will always be the kid brother to the American tour.  The PGA Tour is just deeper, much deeper.  But The euro's have the upper hand when it comes to the top 15 in the world.  Although all too often the European tour means the rest of the entire world in many cases.  Which by all accounts should answer why the rest of the world can produce some good golf as opposed to one country.  I like good golf and I don't really care where it comes from.