Do You Support the PGA's "Tee It Forward" Effort?

[InTheRough]

i answered "no" to this poll because i do not like the tee-it-forward campaign applied to myself however i do agree that there are people out there that need to hit from more forward tees just to clear the forced carries.  i have tried moving forward to the front set of tees when i was playing with family members who just started out and i did not enjoy myself quite as much because i felt like i was "cheating" by being able to cut 50 yards off of a hole.  My family members that i was playing with would not have been able to realistically play from any other set of tees because they can only carry the ball 160 on a solid hit so for them teeing it forward was necessary but i was constantly having to wait for the group in front of us to basically be on the green on most holes because there was too good of a chance that i would hit into them and i felt like i was personally holding up the group behind us (i actually ended up moving back to the second from the back tees-- where i usually play-- for the last few holes).

To me it seems like the tee-it-forward campaign which was a good idea at the beginning has been hijacked by golfers who are trying to shame every high handicapper into playing the way that they think they should be playing. Even though i am a higher handicapper I hit my clubs longer than the average golfer and play at a very fast pace so i see no reason at all to move forward to a different tee because i can clear the forced carries and from the front tees there is less strategy because i can clear all of the fairway hazards by 50 yards from the front tees.  Also, even though i may score better, i do not want to hit an iron on every hole--that gets boring very quickly--i want to be able to use every club in my bag when i play including the clubs that area harder to hit consistently.   I play the game of golf because i enjoy it, not because i feel the need to go out and beat everyone else's score and unfortunately too many people take these programs too far and move from suggesting that a player play from the front tees because they might enjoy it more, to that they have to play the front tees because they are a high handicapper who is getting in the way of the "real" golfers out there.  These types of attitudes exist too much in golf (every golfer has a story about someone who was a complete dick to someone on a golf course) and it is these attitudes that drive people away from a game that is currently struggling to keep its current players and gain new ones

[isukgolf]

Even though i am a higher handicapper I hit my clubs longer than the average golfer and play at a very fast pace so i see no reason at all to move forward to a different tee because i can clear the forced carries and from the front tees there is less strategy

Moving is up not for everyone ... its a suggestion that many weekend golfers should consider

So moving up removes the strategy ... but you still can not make PAR from the forward tees?  Where are you struggling with your game then?

I don't think many people, at the end of the day care with tees you use, if you can get ball out there on the fairway ... and sounds like you do that well ... and I assume in the fairway'ish

I do agree 100% on the above comment, and its the one I use ... if you are going to suk, suk fast and keep the game moving!

Good luck to you!

[Dave2512]

Being a high handicap golfer means the only thing you are consistent with is inconsistency. We hit more poor shots than good ones.

[Lihu]

i answered "no" to this poll because i do not like the tee-it-forward campaign applied to myself however i do agree that there are people out there that need to hit from more forward tees just to clear the forced carries.  i have tried moving forward to the front set of tees when i was playing with family members who just started out and i did not enjoy myself quite as much because i felt like i was "cheating" by being able to cut 50 yards off of a hole.  My family members that i was playing with would not have been able to realistically play from any other set of tees because they can only carry the ball 160 on a solid hit so for them teeing it forward was necessary but i was constantly having to wait for the group in front of us to basically be on the green on most holes because there was too good of a chance that i would hit into them and i felt like i was personally holding up the group behind us (i actually ended up moving back to the second from the back tees-- where i usually play-- for the last few holes).

To me it seems like the tee-it-forward campaign which was a good idea at the beginning has been hijacked by golfers who are trying to shame every high handicapper into playing the way that they think they should be playing. Even though i am a higher handicapper I hit my clubs longer than the average golfer and play at a very fast pace so i see no reason at all to move forward to a different tee because i can clear the forced carries and from the front tees there is less strategy because i can clear all of the fairway hazards by 50 yards from the front tees.  Also, even though i may score better, i do not want to hit an iron on every hole--that gets boring very quickly--i want to be able to use every club in my bag when i play including the clubs that area harder to hit consistently.   I play the game of golf because i enjoy it, not because i feel the need to go out and beat everyone else's score and unfortunately too many people take these programs too far and move from suggesting that a player play from the front tees because they might enjoy it more, to that they have to play the front tees because they are a high handicapper who is getting in the way of the "real" golfers out there.  These types of attitudes exist too much in golf (every golfer has a story about someone who was a complete dick to someone on a golf course) and it is these attitudes that drive people away from a game that is currently struggling to keep its current players and gain new ones

Agreed, that a decent challenge is nice, but using the proper tees for our handicap really provides enough challenge.

This being said, it is fun to play the back tees when there is an awesome view to be had or some other reason. If the course is pretty empty it is really no issue.

However, I have recently played from over 7000 yards, and found it to be more of a "thrill" than a golfing experience. The last 6 holes didn't really provide that much thrill, and it became work. I had to pull a 3W out on the 480 yard straight and level par 4. In the end, I shot a 96 which played to a 17 handicap on those tees (74/133). I prefer to shoot in the mid to high 80s on the proper tees, and find that the longer tees don't really help me achieve the goal of getting down into the low 80's (my dream goal for the year).

I've seen all kinds of people who hit pretty far, but end up on the wrong fairway. Not all fairways are wide and open. This certainly takes time out of the game because two parties need to slow down. My son mentioned to me, recently, that "Golf is meant to played from your own fairway." Instead of shooting from the other fairway, he took a drop. Now, I do the same.

"Tee it forward" is not just for those who hit short, but for those that want to really play golf. Otherwise, you're just doing the long drive thing no matter how much time it takes out of the course. Hence, the 5 hour plus rounds for everyone.

Moving is up not for everyone ... its a suggestion that many weekend golfers should consider

So moving up removes the strategy ... but you still can not make PAR from the forward tees?  Where are you struggling with your game then?

I don't think many people, at the end of the day care with tees you use, if you can get ball out there on the fairway ... and sounds like you do that well ... and I assume in the fairway'ish

I do agree 100% on the above comment, and its the one I use ... if you are going to suk, suk fast and keep the game moving!

Good luck to you!

Moving up is not for everyone, but it is for those who want to play real golf. There are thousands of statistics saying that a so and so handicap should play from a specific set of tees.

If the course is not full and you have a lot of time on every tee, you can play any set of tees you like. However, if it impacts the entire course you should show some restraint and play from the proper tees.

No matter how fast you are, if you end up in a position that requires two parties to slow down even for less than a minute, it slows things down for everyone. Even if it only happens once per hole, each time this happens it could cost a lot more than just 18 minutes delay per round per person. It could bog down the course a lot.

For example, two weeks ago, some people in front of us played the middle tees. They didn't spend that much time per player per shot, but the fact that they took one more shot each caused my party to play 18 minutes per hole. Had they teed it forward they could have avoided 4 minutes per hole, and dropped pace of play down to 14 minutes per hole. This could have brought the round down from a 5 hour 24 minute one down to a 4 hour and 12 minute one.

Remember that each player is only taking 1 minute per stroke (which is pretty fast and reasonable), but that extra stroke each hole costs a lot of time.

Being a high handicap golfer means the only thing you are consistent with is inconsistency. We hit more poor shots than good ones.

Agreed.

[isukgolf]

Moving up is not for everyone, but it is for those who want to play real golf. There are thousands of statistics saying that a so and so handicap should play from a specific set of tees.

If the course is not full and you have a lot of time on every tee, you can play any set of tees you like. However, if it impacts the entire course you should show some restraint and play from the proper tees.

No matter how fast you are, if you end up in a position that requires two parties to slow down even for less than a minute, it slows things down for everyone. Even if it only happens once per hole, each time this happens it could cost a lot more than just 18 minutes delay per round per person. It could bog down the course a lot.

For example, two weeks ago, some people in front of us played the middle tees. They didn't spend that much time per player per shot, but the fact that they took one more shot each caused my party to play 18 minutes per hole. Had they teed it forward they could have avoided 4 minutes per hole, and dropped pace of play down to 14 minutes per hole. This could have brought the round down from a 5 hour 24 minute one down to a 4 hour and 12 minute one.

Remember that each player is only taking 1 minute per stroke (which is pretty fast and reasonable), but that extra stroke each hole costs a lot of time.

Your preaching to choir on this one ... I always play forward ... I was trying to not to be rude to the gentleman that posted ... (I am still new here, and trying to offend anyone)

Its been my observation that some folks with high handicaps claim to bomb it a loooong way ... and refuse to move forward ... so be it ...  I am not going to convince those people to move forward ...

But if you are going to play back (which is your choice) and you are a high handicap...   then please suk fast ...

[Dave2512]

I think it's just a symptom of higher handicap golfers not seeing the big picture and being honest how bad their bad shots are. We tend to remember the best shots and consider that our potential rather than the anomalies. It's more than just making decisions based on assuming you will hit your best drive. If it takes you 5 shots to get it on the green 3 of the 4 par 5's there is something wrong with the full swing shots period. Closer to the hole is always better and I've yet to encounter even one golfer that hits a driver more consistently than a 9 iron. Even if perception is skewed by an expectation of increased accuracy the miss will usually be less severe. When I did my last lesson with FlightScope with difference in my shot pattern from driver to 7 iron was huge, from 7i to wedge the pattern got more concentrated.

But where I think the wires get crossed is people don't realize tee it forward means just playing appropriate tees not moving up to reds. If you can score reasonably well from 6500 or whatever that is your range. If you struggle to break 90 from 6500 and your bad days exceed 100 and there is a set of tees between that and the most forward tees you are probably too far back. It's not going to make huge differences in how you play because are still going to hit more bad shots than good.

Not sure how many participating in this thread were around for the tee it forward experiment but if memory serves not one person that tried it and posted results scored worse than they usually do. In some instances scores were dramatically lower. It was a game changer for me. Not because I moved up, at the time I was playing white tees with a higher handicap than I have now. But it made me see the course differently and realize that getting into trouble can be an unnecessary consequence of being stubborn.

[Lihu]

Your preaching to choir on this one ... I always play forward ... I was trying to not to be rude to the gentleman that posted ... (I am still new here, and trying to offend anyone)

Its been my observation that some folks with high handicaps claim to bomb it a loooong way ... and refuse to move forward ... so be it ...  I am not going to convince those people to move forward ...

But if you are going to play back (which is your choice) and you are a high handicap...   then please suk fast ...

Sure, I think my comment with your quote was elaborating a bit as to why it slows things down even if your individual stroke time is "fast".

[Dave2512]

You are only as fast as the time it takes to find your errant shots. Nobody is fast walking around in circles looking for balls. You see higher handicap golfers doing this more often than lower handicap golfers.

[isukgolf]

@Dave2512 and @Lihu you guys are spot on!  Sounds like we have similar experiences.

[Divot Master]

there needs to be more mixed tees you can play from that are marked on card.for instance say tips are 7000,next are 6600,next are 6100 and so on.so if you need to play between them distances then you should be able to play mixture of tees to make up the distance you need.so for like 6300 yards you should play mixture of 6600 and 6100 tees.they do this by putting a circle around the yardages for the tees you play on each hole.they could use a square for say tees to make up between the 6600 and 7000 tees.this way they don't have to add tee boxes,just use combination of tees to get yardage your skilled to play.granted there would need to be ratings changed but wouldn't change much.

In my opinion, the biggest impediment to success of the Play it Forward movement is all the courses out there that won't (or will claim they can't afford to) create a decent forward course.  A typical example, the public course I played yesterday.  Blue 6800, White 6400, and Red 5400.  Most holes, the Blue and White share a single tee box about 30 yards long.  The only other tee box is a postage stamp about 50 yards forward for the Reds.  A few years ago they decided to add senior tees.  They did this by painting one side of the red tee markers yellow.  That's all!

Obviously, with a little dirt, seed, and creativity, they could create a lovely yellow tee set at around 5900, and they would likely greatly increase their senior play.  But a lack of foresight keeps this from happening.

Another resort course in my area, that charges premium $50-60 greens fees, has only two sets of tees!  Blue at 6300 and Red at 5300.  Ain't no "play it forward" gonna happen there!  As you can well imagine, the pace of play sucks there.

[Dave2512]

A combo rating and 18 sets of new markers is easy enough. I play courses with combo tees that on some holes markers are stacked right next to other and other holes moved up. For example on the sub 375 yard par 4's gold and white tees are in the same spot. On longer par 4's, 5's and par 3's with long hazards to carry the gold tees are either all the way up on the white box or near the red markers. One course doesn't use color, each tee has a marker with a horse on it. One horse is tips, two horses is one up etc. all the way to 5 horses. There are three sets of combo tees (1 and 2 horses)  (2 and 3 horses) and (4 and 5 horses). On the card there are arrows that designate which tee to play from for the combo rating. With 3 combo ratings you can play that course 8 different ways and it only shortens the course enough to take away trouble to give lesser skilled golfers a chance to keep the ball in play. On the back 9 they only move you up on one hole, on the front they move you up on 5 holes.

[DwightC]

Like any advertising slogan, play it forward, is a simplification.  On one level, it's all about pace of play and courtesy to the groups behind.  On another, picking the right tee box is basic course management, even before setting foot on the course.  Most people aren't too good at course management.  Then there's the problem of testosterone poisoning, for guys from puberty to around 60 ('I play from the tips because I hit a drive 300 yards once--wind behind me and downhill all the way').

So, I'm all in favor of people actually thinking about which tees they should be playing from, and courses giving players meaningful options.  Also, if you're not posting your scores, if the course isn't too busy, and if your group is agreeable, there's no law that says you can't play some holes from one set of tees and other holes from a different one.  Just saying . . .

[whatwoodtigerdo]

A combo rating and 18 sets of new markers is easy enough. I play courses with combo tees that on some holes markers are stacked right next to other and other holes moved up. For example on the sub 375 yard par 4's gold and white tees are in the same spot. On longer par 4's, 5's and par 3's with long hazards to carry the gold tees are either all the way up on the white box or near the red markers. One course doesn't use color, each tee has a marker with a horse on it. One horse is tips, two horses is one up etc. all the way to 5 horses. There are three sets of combo tees (1 and 2 horses)  (2 and 3 horses) and (4 and 5 horses). On the card there are arrows that designate which tee to play from for the combo rating. With 3 combo ratings you can play that course 8 different ways and it only shortens the course enough to take away trouble to give lesser skilled golfers a chance to keep the ball in play. On the back 9 they only move you up on one hole, on the front they move you up on 5 holes.

This is a good idea that more courses should use. You can have a lot more yardage totals that way. I play one course that's 6100 from the fronts and 6750 from the backs. The tips are like 7400 or some thing like that. But anyway I find 6750 wears me out but 6100 is way too short and I won't even use half my bag. I always wondered why there isn't some kind of combo tees to close that gap. Not to mention I am gambling with people who are play tees that are averaging starting 50 yards ahead of me.

[Fourputt]

"If you don't play the tips, your personal records have no meaning."

I've seen this posted in the past, both here and on one other golf forum.  Yeah... by guys who really believe that it's true.  Guys who are so hung up on ego that they refuse to recognize the validity of play from any other tee.  I briefly debated with them at the time, then just shut up and left them with their poorly conceived, and to me irrelevant, opinions.

I played the middle tees on my home course for more than 35 years, with only an occasional rare foray to the tips.  I played middle or shorter tees on most courses I visited when I was away from my home course.  I set most of my personal records playing from the 6500 yard home tees or road equivalent, and I don't feel diminished in the least because of it, no matter what anyone else says. I refuse to be bullied into playing from a tee where I'm not comfortable.

I play for my own pleasure, and that includes when I play a competition.  The Mens' club I played in played the middle tees in tournaments for all players except the first flight, and most of my greatest accomplishments in the game happened during those competitions.  My personal lowest round, my lowest round away from my home course, my first hole in one, all occurred during tournament play.  From the middle tees.  For me those are memorable personal accomplishments, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

The point is, don't let anyone else intimidate you into playing where you don't want to play.  Don't let your own ego drag you into a pissing match that you won't enjoy and can't win.  Play where you feel comfortable, where your game can shine its brightest, where you can keep up with the flow if the course, and where you can actually have fun playing.

[Dave2512]

The unfortunate thing is most of the duffers lacking skill to play back at the tips have personal records too high to give a shit about. I don't care where someone plays from, good golf is good golf. Besides just saying I play from the tips says little about the course. Here there are courses too short from any tees to entice me to play, the low rating is enough to keep me away. In CO 3 up from the back could be in the 6800 yard range and the tips might be sub 6300 at an older city course.

[Lihu]

The unfortunate thing is most of the duffers lacking skill to play back at the tips have personal records too high to give a shit about. I don't care where someone plays from, good golf is good golf. Besides just saying I play from the tips says little about the course. Here there are courses too short from any tees to entice me to play, the low rating is enough to keep me away. In CO 3 up from the back could be in the 6800 yard range and the tips might be sub 6300 at an older city course.

Agreed, but you are a 10 handicap not a high handicap.

Even though you have more distance in CO off line still puts you off line, and unless your courses are 10% wider at all points it will still land you in the rough or trouble. Higher handicaps should still play the more forward tees no matter how far they hit it. Unless one hits it straighter, there is no reason to be on the longer tees.

[Pretzel]

Agreed, but you are a 10 handicap not a high handicap.

Even though you have more distance in CO off line still puts you off line, and unless your courses are 10% wider at all points it will still land you in the rough or trouble. Higher handicaps should still play the more forward tees no matter how far they hit it. Unless one hits it straighter, there is no reason to be on the longer tees.

The other advantage of thinner air: Spin has an equally lesser effect on the ball when compared to the drag. It means you're just as accurate in terms of hook and slice, except longer.

Also, there was a certain piece of recent literature that advised you take 20 extra yards and a 10% decrease to fairways hit, over a 20 yard hit and a 10% increase to fairways hit, should a genie in a bottle offer it up to you.

That said, shorter tees are definitely where higher handicap players should be regardless of their length off the tee. If they hit it far off the tee and are still a high handicapper, they're only hurting themselves even more by making their approach shots unnecessarily long. They already are struggling to hit greens from the shorter distance, so why would they make that distance any longer? It's like they're taking the ball they hit off the front tees and walking it back 30-60 yards before dropping it and hitting it at the green.

[InTheRough]

Agreed, but you are a 10 handicap not a high handicap.

Even though you have more distance in CO off line still puts you off line, and unless your courses are 10% wider at all points it will still land you in the rough or trouble. Higher handicaps should still play the more forward tees no matter how far they hit it. Unless one hits it straighter, there is no reason to be on the longer tees.

How about because they enjoy it more?  Isnt golf supposed to be a fun activity that you do in your free time and spend your hard earned money on?  I totally agree that if you are holding people up because it takes you 3 or 4 strokes to get anywhere near the green on an average length par 4 than you need to move up or let people play through but to say that there is no reason for a high capper to play a longer/tougher course kinda misses the whole point of the game (just IMO--nothing against you personally).  Playing a shorter course where you only need the driver or 3W once or twice can be fun and challenging in its own way but i still enjoy the challenge of a course that makes me hit every club in my bag to score well.