Gigagolf Golf Clubs

[Aflighter]

Well years ago I was looking for a new set of clubs after getting my fill of my taylormade burner lcgs.I wasn't exactly wanting to spend hundreds of dollars for name brand clubs so I found some clones online.These are XL-20s made by turbo power.I guess turbo power is the name of the company,im not sure but they still make clubs.These were clones of the callaway x-20s.I got a set 3-pw custom fit by answering measurement questions like how far my hands hang from floor when im holding club at address.I don't know if that's how you actually get fit for clubs but anyways I paid 139 for them in steel shafts and I got a free lob wedge thrown in.I actually won a couple amateur tournaments with them but of course I wanted to get name brand clubs because I guess it just makes you look like a real golfer.Ive had clevelands,taylormade,callaway and after these years I cannot tell you they have performed any better than those clones.Im a 9 handicap and its more about the golfer than the club I believe.All it would take is to see some commercials and see some professional golfers using these kind of clone clubs for a lot of people to play them.Im not sure how much technology these clone companies have to make their clubs play like the name brands or if they are just creating a clubhead and casting it with their name put on them.The big drawback for the clones are that they have no resale value at all.Since I won a couple tournaments with mine I wouldn't ever try to sell them because of sentimental value and im currently in process of reshafting them with graphite to give them another try.

[acerimusdux]

As such, I am kind of curious to know which of the irons there plays most like those AP2s that I was messing around with over the weekend.

Any help greatly appreciated....

Easily the Pursuit C510s, the forged cavity back irons.

Also probably the best reviews of any club Gigagolf sells.

If you are comfortable with a "players" club like the AP2, you don't need the fatter sole of a "game improvement" club, those are the ones to go for.

[Polemix]

Clone manufacturers havent invented the wheel, they are simply using known features which are not protected by copyright and making very good clubs using concepts that have fallen in the public domain (slots, hollow cores, cavity back, CNC milled square grooves etc). Is that a reason to chastize them? I don't think so. In the case of Gigagolf in particular (but also Monark, Hireko, Diamond Tour Golf...) they actually make excellent clubs to very high quality standards. For my part, I can't say there is any difference in my score if I play with my Gigagolf set or with other clubs, other than the fact I am used to the Gigagolf ones.

In fact, I am all for chastizing the OEM companies who keep overselling the benefits of very minor innovations. If you take a set of Taylormade or Mizuno irons from 20 years back, it is likely they will perform very similar to the current irons, yet somehow they manage to brainwash customers into buying the new model because it has a lower CG or something fashionable. For me, the issue is not the "clone" manufacturers, it's the main OEMs, they are the ones misleading the public, spending heaps of money on marketing in the process to make you believe something which is simply not true. A new set of golf clubs will not increase your yardage by 10% or suddenly take your Hcp down 5 index points, that's the sad truth, and it applies both to OEMs and less known brands.

The real improvements in golf clubs over the last decade(s) has been in the shafts. In early 2000s there was a real issue following the relocation of manufacturing to China, so if you bought clone clubs with cheap shafts you could really get, well, shafted. That's now mostly resolved, especially with the top brand shafts. If you fit your clone clubs with quality shafts and grips, you won't be able to tell the difference. The introduction of Titanium drivers about 10 years ago has also made some difference, although for my part I still prefer a steel head driver, which seem to give me better feedback and distance somehow. So you have amateur players crushing their drives 300 yards, whereas 10 years ago they would have stuck around 250-260. I don't think that's really made that much of a difference to their scores, because they're spreading their drives all around the rough and into the trees...

[imsys0042]

I've not heard of Gigagolf before and it's nice to see a smaller company compete and have good customer service like that, at least from many of the comments. I remember years ago caddying for someone who had his clubs built but a club maker at a local driving range. It was where everyone went to get their clubs fixed or lengthened. Anyway, that guy measured you and then used good shafts with clone club heads and anyone who used them, loved them. My old caddy master, a 2 handicap, also used to recommend clone clubs to us. Said they were just as good, at least the heads. I think he said that you might have to put different shafts on them. But it would still be half what the bigger companies were charging.

[dkolo]

I've not heard of Gigagolf before and it's nice to see a smaller company compete and have good customer service like that, at least from many of the comments. I remember years ago caddying for someone who had his clubs built but a club maker at a local driving range. It was where everyone went to get their clubs fixed or lengthened. Anyway, that guy measured you and then used good shafts with clone club heads and anyone who used them, loved them. My old caddy master, a 2 handicap, also used to recommend clone clubs to us. Said they were just as good, at least the heads. I think he said that you might have to put different shafts on them. But it would still be half what the bigger companies were charging.

It's not so hard for a smaller company to compete when they're piggybacking on the work larger OEMs are doing. Gigagolf is still blatantly ripping off the trade dress of Taylormade, Callaway, and PING.

[Polemix]

I also play with low lofted wedges. I wanted 46 and 50 degrees so I got a 9i and a PW from the c510 cavity backed range and had them built to my usual wedge length and lie (35.5 inches long with 65 degree lie) and then got my local fitter to tweak the loft +2 degrees from 44 and 48. I was afraid the bounce would feel funny but they work absolutely fine that way. If you prefer muscle backs you can use the m510 in the same way.

I also carry a 5i (27 degree) c510 which they bent 4 degrees upright in lie and cut to 35.5 inches so I can use it as a chipper, I am completely in love with that club which is way more versatile than a usual chipper, I play it from under trees for low shots and any approach which does not need to stop quickly from 140 yards in! Try using a commercial chipper from 40 yards or more and you will see what I mean!

[LBlack14]

It's not so hard for a smaller company to compete when they're piggybacking on the work larger OEMs are doing. Gigagolf is still blatantly ripping off the trade dress of Taylormade, Callaway, and PING.

You're full of it and don't know the 1st thing of which your speak. They've all ripped off PING and the cavity back design including Taylormade, Callaway!! Ever heard of Scotty Cameron? He's a fine example of a rip off artist. Until recently he never had much of anything "original". Obviously you know nothing about open mold designs. Just because something has some of the same colors and similar lettering has nothing to do with ripping off actual club designs. Fact.

[dkolo]

You're full of it and don't know the 1st thing of which your speak. They've all ripped off PING and the cavity back design including Taylormade, Callaway!! Ever heard of Scotty Cameron? He's a fine example of a rip off artist. Until recently he never had much of anything "original". Obviously you know nothing about open mold designs. Just because something has some of the same colors and similar lettering has nothing to do with ripping off actual club designs. Fact.

O RLY?

Unless you don't know what the term "trade dress" means, I don't know how you could so much as quibble with what I wrote originally.

[Polemix]

Unless you've ever tried to start and run a small business, playing in the same field as big companies, I doubt you have much of an idea how much hard work it takes, for my part I feel slightly offended by your contention that "it's not so hard"...  Actually, when I look at the pictures you posted, I personally see the difference very clearly, there is no confusion possible. They follow similar design codes, but you can hardly say that GG is misleading people into believing they are buying "real" Taylormades.

If any of the similarities you rightly point out were objectionable, Taylormade would have sued and won. They haven't, so you can rest easy they don't have a leg to stand on. Lback is absolutely right, all the OEMs are always copying each other, the most obvious example being the Ping cavity back design which everybody started copying from the 90s. Take the TM Burner / TRX irons you have placed, they are simply modernized versions of the Ping Eye 2 black dot, with very little added tech. Ping Eye II, now that was a real technological breakthrough! I suggest you try playing a set of Ping Eye 2, they are 20+ years old but they still perform right up there with any current GI clubs. What Taylormade did, 20 years later, is add a coat of red paint and call it an original model, and Ping isn't suing them either, because they don't have an enforceable patent right, and because, anyway, they rip off other people's ideas as well... Red paint and a little cross down the back would definitely not be sufficient differentiator to protect the IP.

The sliding weights on the SDLR would seem to me like they would be patentable, but I am no expert. I am sure TM has very good lawyers advising them, and from discussing with their fitters, I gather GG and other non-brand clubmakers take IP very seriously. I understand in many cases they run their clone clubs by the OEMs before selling them to make sure they don't get sued, so somehow TM must have been OK with it... It's not our job to protect their patents, they have an army of lawyers at their disposal for that. You have GG confused for some low life maker of counterfeit clubs, perhaps you should do your homework...

[dkolo]

Unless you've ever tried to start and run a small business, playing in the same field as big companies, I doubt you have much of an idea how much hard work it takes, for my part I feel slightly offended by your contention that "it's not so hard"...  Actually, when I look at the pictures you posted, I personally see the difference very clearly, there is no confusion possible. They follow similar design codes, but you can hardly say that GG is misleading people into believing they are buying "real" Taylormades. If any of the similarities you rightly point out were objectionable, Taylormade would have sued and won. They haven't, so you can rest easy they don't have a leg to stand on. Lback is absolutely right, all the OEMs are always copying each other, the most obvious example being the Ping cavity back design which everybody started copying from the 90s. Take the TM Burner / TRX irons you have placed, they are simply modernized versions of the Ping Eye 2 black dot, with very little added tech. Ping Eye II, now that was a real technological breakthrough! I suggest you try playing a set of Ping Eye 2, they are 20+ years old but they still perform right up there with any current GI clubs. What Taylormade did, 20 years later, is add a coat of red paint and call it an original model, and Ping isn't suing them either, because they don't have an enforceable patent right, and because, anyway, they rip off other people's ideas as well... Red paint and a little cross down the back would definitely not be sufficient differentiator to protect the IP. The sliding weights on the SDLR would seem to me like they would be patentable, but I am no expert. I am sure TM has very good lawyers advising them, and from discussing with their fitters, I gather GG and other non-brand clubmakers take IP very seriously. I understand in many cases they run their clone clubs by the OEMs before selling them to make sure they don't get sued, so somehow TM must have been OK with it... It's not our job to protect their patents, they have an army of lawyers at their disposal for that. You have GG confused for some low life maker of counterfeit clubs, perhaps you should do your homework...

I didn't say it was illegal. As I've said months ago, I find what Gigagolf does to be morally dubious because they're clearly glomming onto the design cues of bigger brands to co-opt the goodwill towards the products that those companies have invested money into fostering, both through R&D; and marketing. That's why Gigagolf can sell these clubs for so cheap; the leg work has been done and they just need to cover time and materials before turning profit. In the examples above, they very clearly modeled non-functional elements to mimic the Taylormade clubs. That's what I'm referring to by "trade dress." The only reason to do that is to use the goodwill consumers have toward Taylormade's products for themselves. I understand it's not counterfeiting clubs. It doesn't make what they do right. You're correct in that I don't have to fight Taylormade's fight over intellectual property. However, as a responsible consumer, I feel compelled to not reward Gigagolf's behavior because it isn't sustainable for the golf industry. Taylormade puts the money into R&D; to figure out the best way to put in a sliding weight with low-forward CG, Gigagolf doesn't have to do that work, they just copy it. Sure, Mizuno had a sliding weight design, but it was in the rear of the club. Taylormade put work into improving the idea. It's not copying. Intellectual property law fully recognizes the notion of improvements. Taylormade splits the weight into two weights the next year, Gigagolf does exactly the same thing. As I said, it's not perhaps illegal, but it offends my sense of order. Also, just purely housekeeping, kindly use the "quote" feature or include a direct @ mention in replies. It helps people know you've replied or directed a comment to them. Thanks!

[acerimusdux]

If it were patented, I wonder if Mizuno would allow Taylormade to use it:

I agree that these companies all copy each other, when they are able to do so within the confines of the law. I still think Gigagolf on occaision goes a little too far in trying to imitate a specific design. Those SLDR knockoffs for example, I might be hesitant to buy.  I think they also happen to have some of the weaker reviews of the clubs Gigagolf makes.

I see nothing wrong with that TRX iron, though. It was obviously made to compete with the Rocketbladez, with a couple of similar design elements, but visually it's still quite different. Different color scheme, different lines to it visually.  Or the old Verve irons, which were obviously meant to be Ping-like, but without really being too much like any specific Ping (somewhere between G20 and I20, maybe).

Bottom line, I think Gigagolf has established enough of a reputation of their own, for both quality and service, that they might be better off in the future sticking to designs that are a little more disctinctive, following current trends, but not trying too hard to be like one specific model. When they look too much like "knock-offs", I think some people might tend to assume that they are lower quality then they are.

Either way though, it's not something that would impact my buying decisions too much. I'm not interested in paying for "trade dress" anyway.  They have a small business that's been in business for awhile, with a decent reputation for quality and customer service, which good ratings with the BBB and such, and with a business model, selling custom fit clubs directly over the internet, that I think is giving better value than I can find in big retail stores. I think that innovation in business model probably benefits golfers more than most any of the supposed innovations in club design that the bigger companies have been trying to sell us over the last decade.

[toomanymatts]

Those SLDR knockoffs were a step too far for me personally.

[Nytar]

like any aspect of the business world, a certain amount of sharing and allowances of shared designs is given. for many reasons. look at other major industries... Automotive, guns, farm equipment, electronics, computers... they all have a few things patented in each but over all improvements are most often shared. it advances the product market as a whole. things like anti lock breaks, air bags, dual over head cams, smokeless gunpowder, etc etc etc.

with that said many smaller companies made great products using industry standards and a few bells and whistles of larger power companies. Saturn Automotive manufacturing company. they made very good little cars (still have one still runs nearly 200,000 miles). they used working aspects from many companies and incorporated them into their design and put their own body over it.

I am all for a company that makes a good product that has similar innovations (especially being the builder of "clone" computers I build them to surpass Dell, Compaq, Sony, etc standards). the only thing to do is find the reputable small companies that offer solid design and materials. I own an older set of clones but would like to try newer ones but not sure which companies to look into. I never believe on site customer reviews.

but like any company... you can not go by ONE or TWO bad reviews. there are still inconsistency in manufacture and materials even at the Titleist, TM, Ping levels. also just like I dont like fords doesn't mean someone else hasn't had great experiences with them. your swing, comfort, play style come into effect or the customization stats may not work for you on a particular model. so if you are smashing a clone club into things you wouldn't try with the name brand club.. problem is probably your fault. if you are teeing up rocks or bottoming out on a cart path.... your fault for doing stupid things. I don't use my compact car for a farm tractor... don't use your golf club as a tent stake hammer...

nice thing "free enterprize" as long as you don't break copy right laws or patents.... knock yourself out, make good quality, have return customers.. which it seems some of the companies from other posts are doing... return customers from satisfied/thrilled customers.

if we didn't allow some things or similar things to hit market we would have many issues. we would probably have one MAYBE two brands in anything to choose from. that creates a monopoly, inflated prices, supply vs demand issues. if you want the best and feel you will only get that from top brands then go buy a set of Honma Golf’s Five Star Set. I'll buy the clones, a 5% improvement for each time the clubs double in cost is not worth it for me. but if you complain about your high end brand being beat and the guy used clones to do it.... then I think saving $1000 is more then worth it to not have a top brand name stamped across it. its marketing and advertisement you end up paying for many times.

[marty53]

Well sorry I never ran across you. I was a 6 at one point and would have pocketed some of your money using knock offs and clubs that  I built myself from Golfsmith.

[Mozgolf]

I have played and used no name clubs while stationed overseas for a year with work and at the time I remarked that I basically shot the same scores with a $100 complete set as I did with my name brand bag at home (around 8-10 handicap) at the time.

At the end of the day I still prefer to have my name brand cubs. I am also a bit wary of upgrading the clones as if you are not careful you can end up pushing the price to the same level as last years models from the OEMs on clearance. For an infrequent player a great deal for a full set if you don't get carried away

[mmoan2]

I have played and used no name clubs while stationed overseas for a year with work and at the time I remarked that I basically shot the same scores with a $100 complete set as I did with my name brand bag at home (around 8-10 handicap) at the time.

At the end of the day I still prefer to have my name brand cubs. I am also a bit wary of upgrading the clones as if you are not careful you can end up pushing the price to the same level as last years models from the OEMs on clearance. For an infrequent player a great deal for a full set if you don't get carried away

Good point. A brand new set of TM Rbz Stage 2 irons go for $299 right now. 2 years ago, they were $799.

[Mozgolf]

Yes, some of the options on Giga and others can be a bit crazy. In two minutes on the net I can get RBZ 4h and 5h 6-GW for $325. Adams Tech V4 for $249, Cally Edge Hybrid set for $299, Adams a12 OS for $229 (arguably the best listed here for an out and out beginner with 3 hybrids from one of the best OEMs on the market for hybrids)

If I up spec at Giga one hybrid and the TRZ irons 5-AW you can end up at about $375. Pinemeadows is similar, no sweat to arc the price up to $375+ for just 3i to AW with no hybrid!

I know which way I would go. In fact I am tempted to order the a12 OS just for the hell of it having done my 2 min research!

[acerimusdux]

If I up spec at Giga one hybrid and the TRZ irons 5-AW you can end up at about $375.

Only if you are getting crazy and putting the most expensive shafts on everything, and then comparing to OEM shafts. Seriously?

I do think the Adams Idea still might offer a better value overall, if you happen to fit into a standard length and lie set.  Part of the value in GG is that the length and lie adjustments are included in the price.  That a12 set only seems to be available at that price in one configuration.