Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 5388 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted
So far this season most of my rounds have been spread out around 6-8 local muni's. Without exception, the bunkers are pretty bad and inconsistent. At best you get a thin dry top layer with wetter sand below; at worst is thin top with hard dirt underneath. Sometimes both kinds at the same course. If this wasn't bad enough, I'm sure I have not had a raked lie yet. The ball usually sits up high with who knows what under it. As you might guess, this makes getting out a chore and getting close unlikely. Yesterday after my playing buddy and I both had our sand issues, I half joked that I wouldn't mind having a "pick, rake and place" rule when we are playing casual rounds. Anyone else having the same frustration with the bunkers at your course(s)?

In my Bagboy cart bag:
Driver: TM R11s 10.5 R-flex 3W: TM 09 Burner 3H: TM 09 Burner Irons: TM Tour Burner 4-PW r-flex
Wedges: Wilson TW9 GW, Ping Eye 2+ SW, Vokey SM 58.08      Putter:TM Rossa Spider Ball: TM TP/Red LDP, TF Gamer v2   Range Finder: GX-I


Posted


Originally Posted by glk23

So far this season most of my rounds have been spread out around 6-8 local muni's. Without exception, the bunkers are pretty bad and inconsistent. At best you get a thin dry top layer with wetter sand below; at worst is thin top with hard dirt underneath. Sometimes both kinds at the same course. If this wasn't bad enough, I'm sure I have not had a raked lie yet. The ball usually sits up high with who knows what under it. As you might guess, this makes getting out a chore and getting close unlikely.

Yesterday after my playing buddy and I both had our sand issues, I half joked that I wouldn't mind having a "pick, rake and place" rule when we are playing casual rounds. Anyone else having the same frustration with the bunkers at your course(s)?

Only one comment.... that's why they are called hazards.  It may be frustrating, but nothing says that a hazard has to be consistent or pristine - quite the opposite.  It would seem to me that it just gives you more incentive to do whatever you can to avoid them (see the recent thread on course management).

By the way, I've played public courses my whole life, so I know where you're coming from.  I just never let it bother me.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

All the time here in Calgary.

Sometimes it is literally impossible to get the club under the ball - blade after blade.

Gets frustrating as hell - if they are truly bad my golf buddies and I will take a drop without penalty out of the bunker in the rough

:tmade: SLDR X-Stiff 12.5°
:nike:VRS Covert 3 Wood Stiff
:nike:VRS Covert 3 Hybrid Stiff
:nike:VR Pro Combo CB 4 - PW Stiff 2° Flat
:cleveland:588RTX CB 50.10 GW
:cleveland:588RTX CB 54.10 SW
:nike:VR V-Rev 60.8 LW
:nike:Method 002 Putter


Posted

This is pretty standard for public courses here in the NW. Exactly as described, with the addition of rocks. I can pick shots out with the 60* some times and hardly even disturb the sand...


Posted

It can happen even at a private course. With all the other improvements this year, there was no money left in the budget for more sand. They finally worked their magic and gave us nice fluffy greenside bunkers - only to have it rain at least once a day for weeks to pack it back down.

Follow me on twitter

Chris, although my friends call me Mr.L

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Its pretty funny because the public course I play at that has the cheapest green fee's in the area has the nicest bunkers.  It also seems like it gets more business than any of the other ones and everyone I talk to there loves it...I wish more courses would realize they might get more business if they dropped their green fee's a bit.


Posted
Since they are hazards, why even bother with raking them after I am done? I mean if I am unlucky or unskilled enough to be in one, then being in footprints or worse should add to the hazard.

In my Bagboy cart bag:
Driver: TM R11s 10.5 R-flex 3W: TM 09 Burner 3H: TM 09 Burner Irons: TM Tour Burner 4-PW r-flex
Wedges: Wilson TW9 GW, Ping Eye 2+ SW, Vokey SM 58.08      Putter:TM Rossa Spider Ball: TM TP/Red LDP, TF Gamer v2   Range Finder: GX-I


Posted

If the courses you play have really bad hard bunkers, you might want to think about checking your wedges.  The more bounce, the harder its gonna be to get out of a hard packed bunker.  Maybe look into wedges with less bounce if you plan on playing bunkers with really hard sand.  I have actually putted out of bunkers like that in some situations......


Posted

i made this post a while back:

Bunkers are one of the most pricey items to build/maintain on a golf course. Under the most extreme circumstances (that is, setting a course up for tournament conditions all year around) a course would spend hundreds of thousands on labor costs alone to maintain bunkers.

This is obviously an extreme circumstance, so here's something a little more realistic (still pricey, nonetheless).

Cutlip takes maintenance issues into account for new designs and redesigns, such as his recent one at High Mountain Golf Club in New York. The improved look and playability of the bunkers boosted revenue from daily fees at the semi-private course.

So, given that the average course spends $261,500 on course maintenance, and 10-20 percent is on bunkers (we'll say 15% for the sake of argument), roughly $40,000 is spent on bunker maintenance yearly. Pretty pricey.


Posted


Originally Posted by Fourputt

Only one comment.... that's why they are called hazards.  It may be frustrating, but nothing says that a hazard has to be consistent or pristine - quite the opposite.  It would seem to me that it just gives you more incentive to do whatever you can to avoid them (see the recent thread on course management).

By the way, I've played public courses my whole life, so I know where you're coming from.  I just never let it bother me.

I absolutely get what you are saying there but when I get in a bunker that I couldn't get out of with a back hoe This hazard has now destroyed my round.  Luckily my course doesn't have many, because some days it is like hitting off cement.  My ball doesn't even make a line from where it entered to where it is now.  And I think that by raking it I have just made it worse because it leaves groves in the bunker now because it is so hard.  If I could play on those beaches that they do on the PGA I could be a much better bunker player.


Posted

we have several courses around here that just turned them into grass bunkers instead of keeping them up.  They are usually pretty severe with deep ruff, and harder to get up/down from than a regular sand bunker.


Posted


Originally Posted by Fourputt

Only one comment.... that's why they are called hazards.  It may be frustrating, but nothing says that a hazard has to be consistent or pristine - quite the opposite.  It would seem to me that it just gives you more incentive to do whatever you can to avoid them (see the recent thread on course management).

By the way, I've played public courses my whole life, so I know where you're coming from.  I just never let it bother me.


Why don't we just not fix ball marks on greens or replace divots while we're at it?  After all, nothing says those two things have to be done, either.

My philosophy on golf "We're not doing rocket science, here."


Posted


Originally Posted by Paradox

Why don't we just not fix ball marks on greens or replace divots while we're at it?  After all, nothing says those two things have to be done, either.

Sorry but your statement is just silly.  There's a big difference between a hazard and a putting green.  If you can't tell the difference then.....


Originally Posted by trackster

I absolutely get what you are saying there but when I get in a bunker that I couldn't get out of with a back hoe This hazard has now destroyed my round.  Luckily my course doesn't have many, because some days it is like hitting off cement.  My ball doesn't even make a line from where it entered to where it is now.  And I think that by raking it I have just made it worse because it leaves groves in the bunker now because it is so hard.  If I could play on those beaches that they do on the PGA I could be a much better bunker player.


I've played courses (Fossil Trace in Golden, CO is one) with what some would call beautiful sand, but they can still be just as punishing as a bunker with little or no sand.  When you have a 50-50 chance of being buried anytime you hit a bunker, I find it far more frustrating.  And being buried on a slope where the ball is likely to be 8"  or more above or below your feet is a nightmare shot.  Give me a bare hardpan bunker any day over that.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I believe the laws of golf state that munis must have a hard pan floor and the front wall be soft enough to stick a ball along with the rocks.

It may also be illegal to rake out foot prints?

Fixing ball marks is defiantly a no-no!

"Quick Dorthy....the oil can!"


Posted

The bunkers at our club are the same: thin and dry.  It's basically a one-stroke penalty if you hit in one because they are so difficult. I'm learning how to deal with it (had two sandies in a row the other day) but avoidance is definitely the best policy.

In my  bag: 

 Diablo Octane Tour 9.5, 18  -  6DT 19 (3I Hybrid) - 

 Diablo Forged Irons 5-PW -  Tom Watson wedges 52,56,60 - 64 (generic) 

 D.A.R.T. Belly Putter

 B330-RX Balls


Posted

I understand where you are coming from. A hard packed, thin bunker is one place where having a low bounce wedge helps. If the sand is packed super tight I will typically use my 60* wedge and play it like a normal bunker shot. I do enter the sand closer to the ball than I normally would, but I have to make sure I take a solid, firm swing to make sure I get into the sand with the leading edge.

That shot works most of the time... it still won't compensate for rocks though, lol.

Driver -  909D2 9.5*
3 Wood -  975F 14.5*
5 Wood -  909F 18.5*
3I-PW -  Apex circa 2000
SW -   SM 54.08

LW -   SM 60.04

Putter -   Newport 2

Ball -  Pro V1


Note: This thread is 5388 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    Carl's Place
    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • I would think of it in terms of time. The time it takes to get the arm angle into a good position to deliver the club with proper shaft lean. Another component is rotation, but that is also a matter of timing. It relates to how the body stalls to give the golfer time to hit the ball. If you have to get 80+ degrees out of that right elbow in one third of a second versus 50 degrees in the same time then you have to steal time from somewhere. It is usually body rotation. That does not help with shaft lean.  I agree in that amateurs tend to make the swing more complicated than pro golfers. 
    • I haven't been able to practice like I wanted and won't for the next week.  1. The weather sucks in Ohio this year. I have been mostly inside hitting foam balls. Just kind of my basic stuff.  2. I woke up last Saturday with a left side rib muscle on fire. If I turned or leaned a certain way it would spasm that almost buckled my knees. I have been taking a break to let that settle. I don't want to get a long term injury. I think I pinched a nerve or just aggravated a muscles.   3. I am going on a mini-vacation to Florida (screw you Ohio weather) with a friend, and rolling that into a work conference I have next week. I will be with out my clubs for a week.  I will be back next in two Fridays to hit the ground running with some warmer temps and better weather in Ohio, hopefully. I would really like to get more out on the course and the range.     
    • Day 580 - 2026-05-04 Played eight holes. Sometimes golf kicks you in the nuts. 😉 
    • I work with a lot of golfers who want more shaft lean at impact, who currently have AoAs that range from +2° to -2°, and who love to see the handle lower and more "in front of their trail thigh" from face-on at P6. And a lot of these golfers try to solve the issue by working on the downswing. They do something to drag the handle forward. Or they just leave their right thigh farther back so the same handle location "looks" farther forward. Or they move the ball back in their stance. Or they push themselves down into the ground to get the handle lower and increase (decrease?) their AoA (to be more negative). The real fix is often to get wider in the backswing. To do LESS in the backswing. To hinge less, fold the trail arm less, abduct the trail arm less. I had a case of this over the weekend. Before, the player had 110° of trail elbow bend, "lifted" his trail humerus only a few degrees, etc. The club traveled quite a bit around him, and he tended to "pick" the ball from the fairways. In the "after" swings below (which are mild exaggerations — this golfer does not need to end up at < 70° of elbow bend. These were slower backswings with "hit it as hard as you normally would" intent downswings), you can see that he bent his elbow about 70° instead of 110° and lifted his right arm an extra ~15° or more. You can't see how much less this moved his hands across his chest (right arm abduction), but it was also decreased. His hands stayed more "in front of" his right shoulder rather than traveling "beside" them so much. The two swings look like this: The change at P6, without talking about the downswing one little bit (outside of him telling me that he tends to pick the ball), is remarkable: Without 110° of elbow bend to get out (which he gets to 80°, a loss of 30°), the golfer actually loses slightly less elbow bend (70 - 50 = 20), but delivers 30° less elbow bend, lowering the handle and letting the elbow get "in front of" the rib cage… because it never got "behind" or "beside" the rib cage. If you look at this video showing the before/afters of P6, you'll note the handle location (both vertically and horizontally) and the shoulders (the ball is in the same place in these frames). This golfer's path was largely unaffected (still pretty straight into the ball, < 3° path and often < 1.5°), but his AoA jumped to -5° ± 2°. I've always said, and in talking with other instructors they agree and feel similarly, that we spend a lot of time working on the backswing. This is another example of why.
    • We had a member of our senior club who developed a mental block on pulling the trigger. I played with him to see what the membership was talking about. I timed him a few times when he would get over the ball. 45 seconds. He knew he had a mental block and would chide himself, “Just hit it!” Once on the green he was okay and chipping was a bit better. It was painful to watch him struggle. Our “bandaid” was to put him in the last tournament  tee time with two understanding players. We should have suggested to him to take a break from our tournaments. I agree with the idea that when a player realizes they have a problem, the answer is to go fix it and not return until they are able to play at an acceptable pace.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.