Play it as it lies!!!!

[Spyder]

Hey guys. I just wanted to get some of your opinions on this. My buddy, who I golf with all the time when my father is not able to go with me, will almost never play the ball as it lies. If it's laying in the rough, he will readjust the ball on top of the grass with his club. If it is on a bare surface (burned fairway), he will move it over to some grass. The ball always gets touched and repositioned.

The part that is a little bit annoying, is that every time I miss a fairway, he is trying to tell me "Dude, move that ball over.. don't waste a shot". Now, my legit handicap is around an 8 as of today. My buddy is regularly in the low 40's, but every shot that he is hitting is a perfect lie because he readjusts it. I try to tell him that he will never advance his game by setting the ball up perfectly after every shot and told him the importance of playing the damn ball as it lies. Should he ever want to go into a scramble, he will panic when the ball is not in an ideal lie for him because he is so used to hitting a ball sitting on top of a cushion of grass. He just laughs it off and takes it as a joke.

It's not really a stab at my bud when I make the comments, but it does get a little annoying sometimes if he should actually beat me and rub it in that he "got me by a few strokes". When I look back though at all the penalties though, that 40 is actually an 80.

Should I just give up on trying to convince him to play it as it lies and let him get his money's worth? I kind of think not, because he does plan to get into scramblers/tourny's next year with me. Trust me, it's not that I care that much how he plays his ball. It's just slightly annoying if you know what I mean. I'm still at the point where I kind of just put my head down towards my ball and laugh it off when I see it. The problem will come when he's buried in the rough and needs to hit a good shot from that rough. With little experience hitting shots from bad lies, the percentage that he will land the green or successfully lay-up will not be too high.

In my own opinion though, I guess it's not a big deal after all because he is just having fun. Personally though, I would rather shoot a legit 50 and know that I had a terrible day and know what I did wrong so I can work on it and come back the next day even better. I guess to each his own?

[poser]

My opinion is people play this game different.  Some take it really serious while others just get out and enjoy themselves.  I know its against the rules but, golf is already very hard for most people. So if it makes him enjoy it more by giving him better lies then as long I wasn't playing the man for money I wouldn't care.  As for the scrambles not like to many people are playing that straight up and most times they are for prizes and money.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by poser

My opinion is people play this game different.  Some take it really serious while others just get out and enjoy themselves.  I know its against the rules but, golf is already very hard for most people. So if it makes him enjoy it more by giving him better lies then as long I wasn't playing the man for money I wouldn't care.  As for the scrambles not like to many people are playing that straight up and most times they are for prizes and money.

Yeah that's really true. Don't get me wrong, I don't take the game really serious either. I mean I do, but not to the point where I don't have fun and ruin people's fun around me. It's just a game that I naturally excelled at and really enjoy. My buddy and I are mostly just really competitive with each other at everything. In the fall we are on the same bowling league as well lol. He's around a 224 Ave. while I'm hovering around 216. It just gets annoying on a personal level when it's just one more thing that he's 1up'ing me on you know? Haha. Thanks a lot for the input! As long as there is no money on the line, I guess it's fine.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Simple; tell him that if he wants to play casual golf and move the ball after every shot he's welcome to but there'll be no competition from your perspective. If he wants to have some competition then he plays golf by golf's rules.

That'll give him the choice to play for fun or challenge.

[deasy55]

Does he stand 2 feet from the pins while bowling too?

[Spyder]

Haha! I'll have to throw that one at him for sure! We're playing 18 Monday morning.

[saevel25]

Well in our league we play on a course that doesn't get much maintenance, and its over played. So i don't find it fair to play a course that has patchy grass were your always screwed on a lie. So in our league we allow to roll the ball a bit, nothing to improve the lie as in go from rough to fairway or out of a bunker, things like that.

Normally i play it as it lies though everywere else.

[wmiller]

I don't understand this concern for how other people play. Like it violates someone's religion or something

If I play in a tourney or am playing for a few $$ with friends, of course we use the rules. But if I'm out to relax and enjoy myself on a golf course, I'll do as I please thank you. This includes lift-clean-and-place, taking relief from divots, and repairing spike marks on the green, etc., etc..

I've played courses in pga conditions and you never get a bad lie in the fairway. If I'm playing my local and roll into a mud hole/dirt patch in the middle of the fairway, you bet I'll roll it up. Keeps things even.

[deasy55]

I think the OP is complaining because his friend then goes "I beat you" at the end of the round whilst keeping a fake score. If he's keeping score then it should be played within the rules.

Of course it's grand to play the way you stated below, but you wouldnt be keeping score in that situation obviously.

Originally Posted by wmiller

I don't understand this concern for how other people play. Like it violates someone's religion or something

If I play in a tourney or am playing for a few $$ with friends, of course we use the rules. But if I'm out to relax and enjoy myself on a golf course, I'll do as I please thank you. This includes lift-clean-and-place, taking relief from divots, and repairing spike marks on the green, etc., etc..

I've played courses in pga conditions and you never get a bad lie in the fairway. If I'm playing my local and roll into a mud hole/dirt patch in the middle of the fairway, you bet I'll roll it up. Keeps things even.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by deasy55

I think the OP is complaining because his friend then goes "I beat you" at the end of the round whilst keeping a fake score. If he's keeping score then it should be played within the rules.

Of course it's grand to play the way you stated below, but you wouldnt be keeping score in that situation obviously.

You're right on. Thanks!

Like I said, I'm not some "elitist" guy that shows up with all name-brand gear and looks down on people and gets upset at everything lol. Personally I cannot stand those type of "golfers". I have a blast when I'm out. In my second post I think I better explained the situation. It's more or less just extreme competition between buddies. My thought was this...

If you're going to keep score and try to hold bragging rights, then the game should be played by the rules. If we're going to just swing the club, have a few beers and relax, play to score but not necessarily focus on the strokes, then that is awesome by me as well! When we compete at literally everything we do though and he's shooting insanely low scores while moving the ball, I can't help but get a little annoyed. I mean that would be like drag-racing 2 identical cars and getting 4 car lengths head start. Then after the race coming back and saying "Yeah! You SUCK! Who's your daddy!" lol. If I join your group of 3, or just you though, I would never throw my opinion at you and tell you to play it as it lies - unless you try to throw cash or drinks on the line.

[ghalfaire]

I don't really have an issue with folks that want to go to the golf course and play albeit not by the rules of golf.  Things like improved lies, gimme putts, playing lost balls and OB like it was a hazard and all water hazards are lateral are OK with me as long as we don't have a bet.  I play with a lot of friends that play that way and enjoy the time I spend with them.  Although I admit if rubs me some when they stick the needle in about having beat me by a couple since we don't play the same game.  But these are friends so I keep my mouth shut and buy a round and talk about women or politics or sports.  The game is to be enjoyed since very few of us make a living at it, so have fun.  But if you want to play golf then by definition you have to play by the rules of golf or you are playing a different game that is only similar to golf.

[wmiller]

If your friend is keeping score while he's bending the rules, then I agree, that's not right.

For score, you need to play to an agreed set of rules, like using strict USGA rules (i.e., stroke and distance), or some variant that is agreed to by all involved (i.e., no distance penalty for lost ball, just stroke, etc.)

My friend and I play every other Sunday, and I honestly can't remember the last time we kept score. More like a social forum where we enjoy each other's company for a few hours and hit golf shots. That we have a good time is the important part.

[Fourputt]

Since every round I play gets returned for handicap, I play the ball down, always.  I play by all of the other rules too.  I get no enjoyment from wasting a good ball striking day by invalidating it by fudging my lie or otherwise bending the rules.  But I have a couple of friends who will sometimes roll the ball, or take certain liberties with drops, etc.  I've learned to just ignore it.  They aren't the type to try and hold it up against me when they beat me, but if they did I would have to let them know that we play a different game and that because of that, such comparisons can't be made.  Fortunately they let me play my game by the rules and sometimes even ask for help on the rules, even though the next time they still do it their way.

Best thing I can tell the OP is, tell your buddy that when he starts playing the same game as you play, then you can compare scores.   Until then you don't need to hear about it.  That if he becomes too insufferable, just keep track of the penalties he incurs and tell him what his score really was if he was playing the same game as you play.  That might actually shut him up.

I have no problem with anyone playing any way they want to, but they still have to realize that when they play like that, they are playing a game which can't be compared to golf played by the rules.

[Gresh24]

I play with a wide range of guys, from those that play everything down and by all rules, to those that don't take penalty shots, and even use multiple mulligans.  The thing is, I could care less how anyone else plays, or if they "beat" me, or think they beat me.  I just don't get how that seriously bothers anyone.

[deasy55]

Really? You must have no competitive drive in you at all

Originally Posted by Gresh24

I play with a wide range of guys, from those that play everything down and by all rules, to those that don't take penalty shots, and even use multiple mulligans.  The thing is, I could care less how anyone else plays, or if they "beat" me, or think they beat me.  I just don't get how that seriously bothers anyone.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by deasy55

Really? You must have no competitive drive in you at all

I have a huge competitive drive.  I played basketball in college.   I still participate in several sports and am as competitive as anyone.   I don't look at casual rounds golf with my friends as competitions.  Sure, we will on some ocassions, make bets on rounds, and then the competitiveness and adherence to rules takes a step up.

I guess I look at golf different.  When I play, it is not a competition with my friends or who I'm playing with.  I take it seriously and am very competitive, but to me I am competing with myself and the course.  I have a big drive to get better and improve, just never had to beat, or be better than any of my friends.

Anyway, this topic has nothing to do with competitiveness.  The op is simply bothered by what someone else "thinks" or "says".  I could just as easily question your insecurity the way you question my lack of competitiveness.

[deasy55]

To be honest, I think this thread has everything to do with competitiveness. I'm not sure how my post showed personal 'insecurity', but each to their own I guess. I'm sorry to have apparently offended you in some way.

Quote:

I have a huge competitive drive.  I played basketball in college.   I still participate in several sports and am as competitive as anyone.   I don't look at casual rounds golf with my friends as competitions.  Sure, we will on some ocassions, make bets on rounds, and then the competitiveness and adherence to rules takes a step up.

I guess I look at golf different.  When I play, it is not a competition with my friends or who I'm playing with.  I take it seriously and am very competitive, but to me I am competing with myself and the course.  I have a big drive to get better and improve, just never had to beat, or be better than any of my friends.

Anyway, this topic has nothing to do with competitiveness.  The op is simply bothered by what someone else "thinks" or "says".  I could just as easily question your insecurity the way you question my lack of competitiveness.

[Grumpter]

Originally Posted by Gresh24 I guess I look at golf different.  When I play, it is not a competition with my friends or who I'm playing with.  I take it seriously and am very competitive, but to me I am competing with myself and the course.

I feel the same way.