Play it as it lies!!!!

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by deasy55

To be honest, I think this thread has everything to do with competitiveness. I'm not sure how my post showed personal 'insecurity', but each to their own I guess. I'm sorry to have apparently offended you in some way.

Quote:

I'm sorry, no offense taken, and I'm not trying to be a jerk about this.  Guess I just got a little worked up when my competitiveness was questioned

To me it has nothing to do with competitiveness.  The op and even his friend can both be fierce competitors.  The op's issue is not about 'how' his friend plays, it's simply that the friend 'thinks' he's better than him.  To that I say "Who cares!".  You know who is better.  Who cares what someone else thinks.  That, to me, is an issue of personal insecurity.

We can agree to disagree.  No problem.  I respect your opinion and the exchage.  Sorry for getting off topic.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

I have a huge competitive drive.  I played basketball in college.   I still participate in several sports and am as competitive as anyone.   I don't look at casual rounds golf with my friends as competitions.  Sure, we will on some ocassions, make bets on rounds, and then the competitiveness and adherence to rules takes a step up.

I guess I look at golf different.  When I play, it is not a competition with my friends or who I'm playing with.  I take it seriously and am very competitive, but to me I am competing with myself and the course.  I have a big drive to get better and improve, just never had to beat, or be better than any of my friends.

Anyway, this topic has nothing to do with competitiveness.  The op is simply bothered by what someone else "thinks" or "says".  I could just as easily question your insecurity the way you question my lack of competitiveness.

Sorry for the misunderstanding and I'm not really sure how the thread became so twisted away from the actual point. The actual point is about competition. I didn't post this angry or anything, so you should really read through the other posts that were made by myself and others as well. I was just asking for other people's opinions, not putting people down for the way they play the game. It is, after all, the internet though - so things will be taken out of context 9/10 times.

Anyway.. here was my follow up post about 5 above yours.

Originally Posted by deasy55

I think the OP is complaining because his friend then goes "I beat you" at the end of the round whilst keeping a fake score. If he's keeping score then it should be played within the rules.

Of course it's grand to play the way you stated below, but you wouldnt be keeping score in that situation obviously.

You're right on. Thanks!

Like I said, I'm not some "elitist" guy that shows up with all name-brand gear and looks down on people and gets upset at everything lol. Personally I cannot stand those type of "golfers". I have a blast when I'm out. In my second post I think I better explained the situation. It's more or less just extreme competition between buddies. My thought was this...

If you're going to keep score and try to hold bragging rights, then the game should be played by the rules. If we're going to just swing the club, have a few beers and relax, play to score but not necessarily focus on the strokes, then that is awesome by me as well! When we compete at literally everything we do though and he's shooting insanely low scores while moving the ball, I can't help but get a little annoyed. I mean that would be like drag-racing 2 identical cars and getting 4 car lengths head start. Then after the race coming back and saying "Yeah! You SUCK! Who's your daddy!" lol. If I join your group of 3, or just you though, I would never throw my opinion at you and tell you to play it as it lies - unless you try to throw cash or drinks on the line.

It's basically a matter of getting tired of biting my tongue, but at the same time doing so with a smile and laughing inside - you know? In the end though, it's all about competition amongst friends. At least for me and my buddies at least. I would rather win bragging rights than a 20-spot any day!

[Gresh24]

I understand your position, and I read all the posts.  You wanted opinions, and I gave mine.  To me this is not about competition.  You are the better golfer and you know it.  You're just "annoyed" about what your buddy thinks.  Again I ask, Who Cares?

If you want to make it a true competition with your buddy, make it that way.  Agree on ground rules before you play.  Lay it out there and compete.  If it bothers you that much, tell him about it.

I would venture to bet that everyone that knows the two of you knows the truth anyway.

I actually play with a guy like this.  At the end of the round we have about the same score, and he sometimes beats me.  However, he uses a couple mulligans, doesn't count all of his OB shots, and uses a 'foot wedge' to get better shots to avoid hazzards.  It doesn't bother me when he 'beats' me.  Again, to each their own.  I have never needed 'bragging rights' with my buddies.  Having bragging rights has nothing to do with a person's level of competitiveness.

[Spyder]

I appreciate your feedback Gresh24. I never really show any emotion except for a smile when I'm playing golf. Sure I get upset just as any other person, but I usually keep the "competitiveness" inside (a long with anger and 4 letter words that I would love to scream out!). I think my problem sometimes is that I'm overly competitive whether people see it or not when they're around me. It just depends on who you are and how you and your buddies get along. For us it's something we like to bring up at every cookout and every time we meet up lol. Nothing like cracking a cold one and telling the boys what a nancy they are for taking 2 shots to get on the Par 3 and then 4 putting!

Anyway, I learned a bit through your guys's opinions - so I thank you all for posting! I guess I can just keep laughing inside and know the truth and keep on having fun. Like everyone here said, as long as money isn't on the line - who cares.

[sean_miller]

It sounds like you could potentially be just as irritated as the OP, but you're a much better athlete in other sports (assuming golf can be considered a sport). You're not concerned that people will consider you less of an athlete / sportsman if you don't get the best score.

Originally Posted by Gresh24

I understand your position, and I read all the posts.  You wanted opinions, and I gave mine.  To me this is not about competition.  You are the better golfer and you know it.  You're just "annoyed" about what your buddy thinks.  Again I ask, Who Cares?

If you want to make it a true competition with your buddy, make it that way.  Agree on ground rules before you play.  Lay it out there and compete.  If it bothers you that much, tell him about it.

I would venture to bet that everyone that knows the two of you knows the truth anyway.

I actually play with a guy like this.  At the end of the round we have about the same score, and he sometimes beats me.  However, he uses a couple mulligans, doesn't count all of his OB shots, and uses a 'foot wedge' to get better shots to avoid hazzards.  It doesn't bother me when he 'beats' me.  Again, to each their own.  I have never needed 'bragging rights' with my buddies.  Having bragging rights has nothing to do with a person's level of competitiveness.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

It sounds like you could potentially be just as irritated as the OP, but you're a much better athlete in other sports (assuming golf can be considered a sport). You're not concerned that people will consider you less of an athlete / sportsman if you don't get the best score.

That's a fair point.  I would take other sports more seriously, but have still never really cared about 'bragging rights'.  I've never needed to 'talk' about my game (in terms of bragging rights) in any sport.  You can't change people's perceptions and actions in sports.  I have enough confidence in other sports to let my play do the talking.  But, I guess in other sports it's much harder to "cheat", so maybe I'm not making a apples to apples comparison.

And no, not irritated, a little opinionated, maybe, but not irritated...  I understand where the op is coming from.  I have buddies a lot like him, and I'm in no way saying it's a bad thing.   I'm just saying I have a different approach.

[Spyder]

Golf is by far not my best sport either. Football was my pride and joy but unfortunately a snapped wrist and several herniated discs ended that against my will.

I think I'm also a little too opinionated at times and overly competitive within myself. Still love the game and my boys though and I'll let them roll the ball wherever they feel comfortable. Just wanted some other people's takes on how they would approach that. Believe it or not, "not caring" is an approach to the situation as well so it is well noted lol. "Choosing not to choose is still making a choice".

Again, I would never get on anyone for rolling the ball. I honestly don't care at the end of the day. It was just the competitive factor and how irritating some of the guys I hang with can be when they win at something. Every now and then it's nice for me to swing that hammer back at them too.

[FLOG4]

To the OP- If you are so upset by your friends behavior of moving the ball, and he appears adamant about not playing by the rules....Move yours. And move it more than he moves his...Move it from just in the rough to into the fairway...After the round or during it if he asks what you are doing....Just say we don't play by the rules, I'm just wanting to have some fun. Many people don't realize the impact of their actions until you return that impact in multiples.....

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by Spyder

Golf is by far not my best sport either. Football was my pride and joy but unfortunately a snapped wrist and several herniated discs ended that against my will.

I think I'm also a little too opinionated at times and overly competitive within myself. Still love the game and my boys though and I'll let them roll the ball wherever they feel comfortable. Just wanted some other people's takes on how they would approach that. Believe it or not, "not caring" is an approach to the situation as well so it is well noted lol. "Choosing not to choose is still making a choice".

Again, I would never get on anyone for rolling the ball. I honestly don't care at the end of the day. It was just the competitive factor and how irritating some of the guys I hang with can be when they win at something. Every now and then it's nice for me to swing that hammer back at them too.

Thanks Spyder.  And sorry again for getting a litle off topic.  More people will likely agree with you than me, just giving my perspective.

[deasy55]

Walk off the tee with the ball and put it in the hole and write down a 0 for the hole

Originally Posted by FLOG4

To the OP- If you are so upset by your friends behavior of moving the ball, and he appears adamant about not playing by the rules....Move yours. And move it more than he moves his...Move it from just in the rough to into the fairway...After the round or during it if he asks what you are doing....Just say we don't play by the rules, I'm just wanting to have some fun. Many people don't realize the impact of their actions until you return that impact in multiples.....

[Kieran123]

Keep track of his real score next time. When he says he 'beats' you tell him his real score.

He will be screwed if he ever plays in a tournament. He won't have a clue to hit some of those shots. And 'those shots' can be some of the most fun in golf.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

He will be screwed if he ever plays in a tournament. He won't have a clue to hit some of those shots. And 'those shots' can be some of the most fun in golf.

This is kind of how I'm feeling most of the time. Aside from the boys busting one another's chops and what not, I kind of just wanted to help him more than anything. Once he told me he wanted to play some scrambles and possibly do some tournaments locally, I started kind of teasing him about moving the ball. I just wanted him to think like... "If I'm afraid to hit the ball where it is currently at now, but I want to play in tournaments where the USGA is observed...  maybe I should start working on hitting from crappy lies". Either way, regardless of whether we do great or terrible, we'll still have a blast playing together. I just didn't want him to be shell-shocked when he has a downward sloped iron shot from a buried rough lie. If you never practice those shots, you can't get upset when you top it 20 yards in front of yourself. I also wanted him to realize that pulling off a miracle shot from a really crappy lie makes the game so much fun. 75% of the time, for us that are not on TV or professionals, we will not pull off the shot. But that one rare time when you do pull off "one of those shots".... it can make it all worth while! It also helps you recover mentally if you had 3 bad holes and then pull off one of those shots that have you talking to yourself before you even approach it. Golf does require a lot of confidence most of the time.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by Spyder

This is kind of how I'm feeling most of the time. Aside from the boys busting one another's chops and what not, I kind of just wanted to help him more than anything. Once he told me he wanted to play some scrambles and possibly do some tournaments locally, I started kind of teasing him about moving the ball. I just wanted him to think like... "If I'm afraid to hit the ball where it is currently at now, but I want to play in tournaments where the USGA is observed...  maybe I should start working on hitting from crappy lies". Either way, regardless of whether we do great or terrible, we'll still have a blast playing together. I just didn't want him to be shell-shocked when he has a downward sloped iron shot from a buried rough lie. If you never practice those shots, you can't get upset when you top it 20 yards in front of yourself. I also wanted him to realize that pulling off a miracle shot from a really crappy lie makes the game so much fun. 75% of the time, for us that are not on TV or professionals, we will not pull off the shot. But that one rare time when you do pull off "one of those shots".... it can make it all worth while! It also helps you recover mentally if you had 3 bad holes and then pull off one of those shots that have you talking to yourself before you even approach it. Golf does require a lot of confidence most of the time.

I agree entirely. Once he hits a few great recovery shots, he may start wanting to hit them instead of moving the ball.

[Leftygolfer]

Playing it up and down isn't the same.  It can be a difference of 5 or 6 shots.  I don't play it down right now due to loose of skill/consistancy b/c of a swing change I've made.  Once I start playing the way I expect, I will play it down in the rough, up in the fairways.  I agree it is annoying.  I have a friend who did the same when I was playing it down.  It really ate me up when he beat me because he didn't play it down and I did.  I could think of a couple of shots that he couldn't have hit if he played where it lied.  But right now I'm playing for fun.  I realize I cheat and I don't care all that much.  When I'm getting ready to play tourney golf (hopefully next year) I will play it down.  It makes a huge difference, particularly chipping around the greens.  But if you play courses that are patchy and unkept, it makes it almost stupid.

[gloomis29]

I know what the OP is saying....my father in law usuallly "beats" me, but he rolls the ball everywhere but bunkers, I play everything as it lies UNLESS its on a tree root and I could damage my club (I use my dad's (RIP) clubs so I'm super anal about them) - but as luck would have it, I played in my 1st city golf tournament a month ago and had to hit from under a tree, off a tree root, over a bunker - LOL......but I don't get too worked up anymore b/c I've been playing better this year and beating him more often......but we don't play for money or anything.......if we ever did, you can bet that it would be fully by the rules, stroke & distance, etc.

[walk18]

Originally Posted by Spyder

Should he ever want to go into a scramble, he will panic when the ball is not in an ideal lie for him because he is so used to hitting a ball sitting on top of a cushion of grass.

Wouldn't a scramble be the one time where he can roll the ball?

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Spyder

Yeah that's really true. Don't get me wrong, I don't take the game really serious either. I mean I do, but not to the point where I don't have fun and ruin people's fun around me. It's just a game that I naturally excelled at and really enjoy. My buddy and I are mostly just really competitive with each other at everything. In the fall we are on the same bowling league as well lol. He's around a 224 Ave. while I'm hovering around 216. It just gets annoying on a personal level when it's just one more thing that he's 1up'ing me on you know? Haha. Thanks a lot for the input! As long as there is no money on the line, I guess it's fine.

Tell him that improving his lie is like playing no-tap against people who are playing straight.

[x129]

Pretty much every one I have played in does the old lift and clean. I am not sure how you could do it otherwise if you are supposed to play 2+ balls from roughly the same location.

Personally when ever he bragged about beating me,  I would have a wise ass remark like "Yeah its hard to beat a guy who has a hot foot wedge". Most people get the point.

Originally Posted by walk18

Wouldn't a scramble be the one time where he can roll the ball?