Eagles signing Mike Vick to 6yrs/100 million....

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by RyderJ

I agree with this 110% Grump...but in a pinch, he seems to resort back to older tactics imho.

Some of his "old tactics" made him a pro-bowl QB, and showcased him as arguably the best athlete in the league.  He obviously made huge strides last year and was rewarded handsomely for it.  Now, we'll see if he can play consistently and live up to it.  But, it is clear this is not the same player, or man, that was on in Atlanta.

[Grumpter]

In a pinch he did tend to revert but hopefully it's just another learning experience. I agree with Gresh24 that he is not the same player as we saw in Atlanta. Hopefully he keeps taking instruction, working on his advancement as a true quarterback and can pull one win through in the next few years. One thing I have to say for the Eagles is that at least try to build winning teams. Now it's about time they actually win the big one.

[RyderJ]

Would you say that this season is a complete bust for the Eagles if they don't win the big dance?

[Gresh24]

Quote:

Would you say that this season is a complete bust for the Eagles if they don't win the big dance?

No.

[RyderJ]

Why is that? With so many big name players on their team, they certainly look formidable on paper...there's a great deal of "star power" on that roster. Not that I believe "star power" wins Super Bowls, but it seems that the media and a the garden variety sports fan believe it to be true.

[Gresh24]

Why - I don't think they are the best team in the NFL.  Sorry, guess I'm not a garden variety fan.

I would put them as one of 4 or 5 teams that are certainly contenders.  But, I don't subscribe to a season being a "complete bust" with anything short of a championship.

[RyderJ]

Lol...I guess you could say I'm not either, but I do agree that they elevated themselves up to legitimate contenders, and if they mesh properly they will have a very strong chance at it. It hurts me to say that...I'm a Cowgirls fan...lol

[shades9323]

Of course it is a complete bust. It is a complete bust for 31 teams every single year.

Originally Posted by RyderJ

Would you say that this season is a complete bust for the Eagles if they don't win the big dance?

[Grumpter]

Quote:

Why - I don't think they are the best team in the NFL.  Sorry, guess I'm not a garden variety fan.

I would put them as one of 4 or 5 teams that are certainly contenders.  But, I don't subscribe to a season being a "complete bust" with anything short of a championship.

If they had won a Superbowl in the last 44 years I might tend to agree with you but....

[gfd66]

Personally I think it's f'n ridiculous. Sports figures are heroes and role models that our kids try to emulate. He committed a crime, and went to prison. Granted he "paid his debt", but he should not have been let back into the NFL. All that said to our kids was"It's OK, just say your sorry." BS!! What ever happened to our country anyway. How did we become so greed driven and touchy feely at the same time. I don't care how talented you are at something. Privileges come with a price. The only time we should be seeing athletes in the papers or on the news is for their performance on their respective field of play and their contributions to society off the field.

These ridiculous salaries are also the reason that most people can't go to a game. Ticket prices are astronomical, food and beverages are crazy, then to top it off $25 to park? If the players want a union,then they should have the same type of setup as everyone else. 3yr apprentice program at a set salary, and a journeyman salary based on position. Prove to us that you're here to win championships and not 10,000sqft mansions. I believe it would go back to love of the game and loyalty to the team that gets these guys to play again rather than the new Bentley that they want. Friggin prima-donnas.......

BTW, GO PACKERS!!!!

[jamo]

Why - I don't think they are the best team in the NFL.  Sorry, guess I'm not a garden variety fan.

I would put them as one of 4 or 5 teams that are certainly contenders.  But, I don't subscribe to a season being a "complete bust" with anything short of a championship.

It's been said a lot since the lockout ended, but I still think it's true that they're only going to go as far a Vick can take them. If he throws the ball as accurately as he did last year, they're one of the top 5 teams. Not the best team, but still pretty good. If he reverts to what he did in Atlanta (or gets indued, though I think Vince Young could actually do some good things if he gets over last night's injury), I think they'll get tossed in the first round of the playoffs.

[x129]

There are 32 NFL teams. You should only expect to win a Superbowl about that often. Now granted for most of the last 44 years there have been fewer teams but until the streak gets up to the 60s, it really isn't that futile.

Originally Posted by Grumpter

Quote:

If they had won a Superbowl in the last 44 years I might tend to agree with you but....

[x129]

If the players played for free, the ticket prices would be just as high. Same thing with beverages and the rest. The price of a good is set by demand not by cost of goods.  Cost of goods determines if it makes sense to make a product not how to price it.

All unions are not like. The NFL union is similiar to the actors union and the like. Unions of unique individuals will not operate the same as unions of replaceable cogs I won't even talk about loyalty to a team.  Maybe if all those contracts were guaranteed the concept of loyalty might make sense but when you can be fired at any time, expecting loyalty is a joke.

Originally Posted by gfd66

Personally I think it's f'n ridiculous. Sports figures are heroes and role models that our kids try to emulate. He committed a crime, and went to prison. Granted he "paid his debt", but he should not have been let back into the NFL. All that said to our kids was"It's OK, just say your sorry." BS!! What ever happened to our country anyway. How did we become so greed driven and touchy feely at the same time. I don't care how talented you are at something. Privileges come with a price. The only time we should be seeing athletes in the papers or on the news is for their performance on their respective field of play and their contributions to society off the field.

These ridiculous salaries are also the reason that most people can't go to a game. Ticket prices are astronomical, food and beverages are crazy, then to top it off $25 to park? If the players want a union,then they should have the same type of setup as everyone else. 3yr apprentice program at a set salary, and a journeyman salary based on position. Prove to us that you're here to win championships and not 10,000sqft mansions. I believe it would go back to love of the game and loyalty to the team that gets these guys to play again rather than the new Bentley that they want. Friggin prima-donnas.......

BTW, GO PACKERS!!!!

[Grumpter]

Quote:

There are 32 NFL teams. You should only expect to win a Superbowl about that often. Now granted for most of the last 44 years there have been fewer teams but until the streak gets up to the 60s, it really isn't that futile.

Hell No - I guess if you are a fan of the Lions, Browns, Seahawks etc. I could understand that way of thinking.

[x129]

The browns won in 2000. To bad they were playing in baltimore:)

It is a bit simplistic but it makes the point that expecting a championship every 15 years isn't realistic in a league with salary caps. On the other hand there might be 32 teams but several of them don't try. You have to be actively trying not to make the playoffs 10 straight years.

Originally Posted by Grumpter

Quote:

Hell No - I guess if you are a fan of the Lions, Browns, Seahawks etc. I could understand that way of thinking.

[newtogolf]

OFF TOPIC

I thought this country was based on the fact someone could make a mistake, make amends for it by paying their debt to society and rebuild their life from where they left off so they weren't dependant on the rest of society.  I think what Vick did deserved to be punished, but to deny someone their right to make a living is far worse.  I don't want to pay additional taxes to support Vick and his family do you?

As for NFL salaries and how they relate to the price of tickets, have you tried getting tickets to a college game lately?  College players aren't paid (by the schools at least) and they still charge $40 - $80 per seat per game to non-students at most of the larger Div 1 schools.  I think tickets to Notre Dame games are close to $100 and some seats for an Oklahoma State game are $125.  Average career for an NFL player that makes the team every year is 6 years, but overall average is 3.5.  If you ever played the game and understand the risk and lifetime of pain these guys have to deal with you wouldn't be so quick to begrudge them their fair share of the revenues.

ON TOPIC

Vick is one of the most athletic QB's to ever play in the NFL.  He's focused on improving his fundamentals but still does and should use his athletic ability when blocking breaks down.  He may not be the leader Manning is yet, but he can/will become a leader, Manning never was and never will be the athlete Vick is.

Originally Posted by gfd66

Personally I think it's f'n ridiculous. Sports figures are heroes and role models that our kids try to emulate. He committed a crime, and went to prison. Granted he "paid his debt", but he should not have been let back into the NFL. All that said to our kids was"It's OK, just say your sorry." BS!! What ever happened to our country anyway. How did we become so greed driven and touchy feely at the same time. I don't care how talented you are at something. Privileges come with a price. The only time we should be seeing athletes in the papers or on the news is for their performance on their respective field of play and their contributions to society off the field.

These ridiculous salaries are also the reason that most people can't go to a game. Ticket prices are astronomical, food and beverages are crazy, then to top it off $25 to park? If the players want a union,then they should have the same type of setup as everyone else. 3yr apprentice program at a set salary, and a journeyman salary based on position. Prove to us that you're here to win championships and not 10,000sqft mansions. I believe it would go back to love of the game and loyalty to the team that gets these guys to play again rather than the new Bentley that they want. Friggin prima-donnas.......

BTW, GO PACKERS!!!!

[LankyLefty]

I dont really see anywhere for Vick to go but down. He had an amazing year but in his last few games he showed the reason that the Atl was so frustrated with him.

He has a way for getting injured, and he is inconsistant with accuracy. I doubt he will play 16 games this year I also highly doubt he will have a QB rating over 85.

Is he a winning QB? Yes. Is he a better passer then he was in atl? Yes.

But I just dont see a guy who is getting older, has always had a propensity for nagging injuries and is wildly inconsistant with his horizontal and lateral accuracy from week to week, as somone worth franchise QB money. I think they should have let him go 1 year on the franchise tag, then once he regressed some and got soem more injuries they would have been able to justify a lower price point.

[x129]

Franchise tag was 20 million.  Thats a lot more per year than the 3 year/~50 (I haven't seen the real number) million dollar contract they gave him. Is it  gamble? Sure.  More than Mannings (he might never play again if he doesn't get his neck issues worked out) and Brees (shoulder surgery) ? Who knows.  Vick has been a good performer (go do in the NFL for a lot of years prior to jail. Expecting him to have another 3 isn't unreasonable. Expecting him to be Manning or Brady is.  My Top 5 would be Manning, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger and Rodgers. Vick would be in the next 5 for me. I think I would take Rivers and maybe Ryan (haven't seen enough) but after that I would be hard pressed to say I would rather see Eli,  Flacco, Romo  or anyone else (sure I am missing at least 1 good guy) back there.

Quote:

I dont really see anywhere for Vick to go but down. He had an amazing year but in his last few games he showed the reason that the Atl was so frustrated with him.

He has a way for getting injured, and he is inconsistant with accuracy. I doubt he will play 16 games this year I also highly doubt he will have a QB rating over 85.

Is he a winning QB? Yes. Is he a better passer then he was in atl? Yes.

But I just dont see a guy who is getting older, has always had a propensity for nagging injuries and is wildly inconsistant with his horizontal and lateral accuracy from week to week, as somone worth franchise QB money. I think they should have let him go 1 year on the franchise tag, then once he regressed some and got soem more injuries they would have been able to justify a lower price point.