Single Length Irons

[mlf16507]

The Pinhawk SL's are game improvement iron.  They are cavity back with undercut cavity .

They are 3mm offset including short irons. Most players irons are offset .1. to 0.5 mm in short irons Due to shitty spring and health problems, I have barely played this year, but so far I think the PinhawkSL's are GREAT!

[ImaDuffer]

Hard to argue with mlf16507.  Although the design is cavity back with undercut cavity; not having progressive bounce as the loft increases makes it difficult for a high handicap slow swinger to get through the ball without taking getting hung up in the turf.  My conclusion is;  SL's are good  clubs, well designed but better suited for middle and fast swing speeds, where hitting through and taking a divit is not occasionally, a painful experience.

On another note, I am not so sure that having multiple swing planes is a handicap.  I find that once you set up correctly for a specific club length, that the swing tends to stay on plane for that length.  After all, hitting balls on the fairway with either club requires adjustments for different lies, elevations etc, no matter which clubs you play.  Our brains are able to handle the many variations better than you might think.  Also, with the SL's I still  have three wedges, three hybrids, one wood and one driver that are all different lengths that I have to work with.  Even with Dave Lake's 1-Iron clubs, you have at least three lengths to deal with, (the irons, the woods, and the driver).  If it were only that simple, I would expect more than just two manufacturers of SL irons.  SL's are logical, but then logic and fact are often not the same.

As of the past week, I have returned to my Ping G5's and playing better already.  But that's just me.

Best to all.

[MbolicGolf]

As some of you know I build a set of single length clubs. This pro I had a lesson with told me that I wouldn't be able to get proper distances out of them becuuse of the loss of angular momentum. I didn't bother to break out my slide rule. So I want to knwo what everyone thinks about single length Irons. I was also considering replacing the heads I have with some maltby forged Irons heads and getting the lie bent to match. what do you guys think?

[mdl]

I've been tempted for a long time to get single length, single lie angle clubs where all my distance difference comes just from loft.  I see no reason to have to have 13 slightly different swings when I could just have 2 or 3 different swings.  And by different I mean reality not feel.  I know lots of people say that you should take the same swing with all your clubs, but that's not reality.

[wmiller]

It would be a cool experiment.

Of course you want the same lie. Varying lie angles are only a necessity when you have different overall club lengths.

Without the different lengths, clubhead speed is going to be very similar across the set, varying only because of different headweights in modern club heads. This may necessitate a larger gap between club lofts in order to cover a sufficient range of distances.

Or you could just carry more clubs... :D

[Stacey_E]

I agree that you need a larger loft gap.  A rule of thumb for Tom Wishon's book was that about 20% of your length gaps comes from the length change in the shaft and about 80% from the loft (based on 1/2" shaft and 4* loft increments in the irons).  I believe Tommy Armour Golf did a set like this some 10+ years ago and I'm sure they weren't the first nor the last.  Interestingly, I was just talking about this subject with my girlfriend who just took up golf about a year ago.  She had no clue, even after playing 10 or 20 rounds that the shaft lengths were different between the irons.  It just came natural for her to set up closer and swing more upright with a wedge than with her 7 iron.

I do have to ask how you plan on matching the swingweights, OR if you would just take a standard set of iron heads an let the swing weights become progressively heavier as you move from the top to the bottom of the set.  Interesting stuff!

[glock35ipsc]

The Tommy Armour EQL irons were a flop, the concept never caught on with the public.

Most of the single length irons I have seen are based around either a "normal" 6 or 7 iron in length and weight (37" - 37-1/2", and ~ 265g), and have 5° of loft gap between each iron.

The issue you will run into with something like a TE Forged head isn't so much bending for loft and lie; as the lofts will only need adjusted +/- 2-3°, and lie around 2°, either of which is very dooable, but the weights like Stacey_E mentioned.  The Pinhawks are built around a 265g head.  The TE Forged 5 iron is 254g, and the PW is 291g.  You would have to remove 26g off of the PW to get it to 265g.  That is a LOT of weight to remove from that head!

If building a true set of one length irons with these heads, you would definitely want all the head weights, and thus the swing weights, the same.  Or else I think you would kind of be defeating some of the point of building a single length set, which is one swing with basically the same club.

Here is some good reading from Dave Tutelman on the subject:

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/OneClub.php

[glock35ipsc]

Hmmm, flop may be a little too harsh a word.  TA sold about 1 million sets over a 5 year period, and determined the project was not successful enough to continue with.  No other major manufacturer that I know of ever had success with, or even tried the concept.

[Rock]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red_on_the_head

  None said:

None

Haha, I actually have one of those adjustable irons too. I bought it as a novelty item for like $20 on ebay. I have never hit it.

The EQL's were ok. The only reason I didn't like them because the shafts were WAY too stiff for me and they were catching top dollar on ebay so I sold them. I couldn't beleive how long and straight I could hit the 2 iron. SL irons like the EQL's are not for everyone that's for sure but what I can't seem to figure out is that if you present a golfer who is brand new to the game. Pretend like he has never seen a set of golf clubs before. Let him pick between two sets and describe the differences to him. I'll bet you that he'll take the single length irons before the "standard" irons. If loft is the primary determinant of distance then why not take the rest of the variables out of play?

Id have to agree with you. in fact Ive only been playing since last year and i think im going to get the 1 irons.   All those variables elliminated 1 basic swing plane.  I kinda think of taking all the practice of one year and dividing it by 14 different swings.  Its pretty inefficient practice.  Ive also stated looking into this and back at the trun of the century 1900s all your clubs were the same length.

[Red_on_the_head]

Does anyone know if there is anything else out there besides 1iron, Pinhawks, Tommy Armour EQL, or iMatch SL's?

[mlf16507]

  Red_on_the_head said:

Originally Posted by Red_on_the_head

Does anyone know if there is anything else out there besides 1iron, Pinhawks, Tommy Armour EQL, or iMatch SL's?

http://www.simpletonsgolf.com/

[David Lake]

Here is a link to an interesting article about single-length clubs by professional golfer Jaacob Bowden: Swingman Golf

[David Lake]

Another company that offers single-length irons is GRIA Golf: www.griagolf.com

[mlf16507]

Article on Single length irons.... http://www.probablegolfinstruction.com/PGINewsletter/news02-05-07.html#OneClub ..

[mdl]

If I had the money I would buy a set of single length clubs instantly and at least give them an honest try.  It seems like it HAS to lead to much increased consistency to basically only have to practice swinging one club!

[sean_miller]

  mdl said:

Originally Posted by mdl

If I had the money I would buy a set of single length clubs instantly and at least give them an honest try.  It seems like it HAS to lead to much increased consistency to basically only have to practice swinging one club!

Get a set of forged irons cut down then have the lofts and lies adjusted accordingly. I assume you'd need wider gaps.

[mdl]

  sean_miller said:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Get a set of forged irons cut down then have the lofts and lies adjusted accordingly. I assume you'd need wider gaps.

I've got forged irons but getting them all reshafted or cut down and bent would still be out of my price range.  Plus I wouldn't want to commit 100% to single length/lie irons by altering my current irons.  What if my intuition is wrong and I want to go back?  I could definitely not afford altering my current irons then purchasing another set, even used!

[Ron Davis]

Why would you cut down irons and have them bent for a trial, when you can buy a new set and try them for 30days. That seems to make more sense. Basically you get a month at your own pace or your cash back