Golf Downswing Sequencing

[colin007]

Ok, so maybe not a complete stop at the top, but maybe less of a jerky transition?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by colin007

Ok, so maybe not a complete stop at the top, but maybe less of a jerky transition?

Like I said, I would try to fix what's causing the "jerky" transition.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by colin007

Ok, so maybe not a complete stop at the top, but maybe less of a jerky transition?

Hey Colin, look up Tour Tempo which was created by John Novosel.  I'm not using it, nor have I ever used it, but there are a lot of golfers who say it works.  The basis is all 'Tour Tempos' are a 3:1 pattern.  The idea is the backswing should take 3 times longer than the swing to impact ratio.... 21-7, 24-8, 27-9.

Here is a video of a guy using his iPhone (guessing on iPhone - could be an Android??) playing the tour tempo beats in his ear as he swings.  The only reason I show this is that it could help you nail a 'natural' transition at the top.  Because if you learn to swing with the proper tempo - your transitions should be clean and eliminate any fear of jerkiness.

[krum176]

Nice video!

[cooke119]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Tough to answer because it depends on the player's needs and what your definition of pause is.  I would generally say no, there isn't a benefit to thinking about a pause or adding a pause at A4, there is a change of direction but "stopping" the motion can only wreck the sequencing.

I think you hear about this a lot because players are taught to take the club straight back and keep the right knee at the same flex as it was at address.  So you have the arms lifting off the torso with a shallow hip turn, very tough to make that motion consistent, maybe a pause at the top helps give the player a chance to get the rates in order?  I don't know, not something I would use very often, if at all.  To me that's fixing the compensation rather than fixing the problem.

I feel my swing is so screwed up right now I'm not sure what I'm trying to fix!

[ChrisGSZ]

The problem is - the downswing lasts just 0.2 seconds - not much time to think about anything.

Here's a suggestion:

We now have a lot of high quality research into what makes the golf swing work'. In a nutshell, there are three scientific fundamentals to produce a powerful, straight and effortless shot:

1. Muscular coordination - from the ground up - legs - hips - trunk - shoulders - arms. Each muscle group generates power and passes it on the the next link in the (biokinetic) chain (like a corkscrew). This creates maximum rotational energy.

2. A tight initial downswing radius - keeping the clubhead close to the body (wrap it round your body). This reduces resistance to the rotational energy produced in #1. So we produce maximum rotational speed .

3. A passive wrist release (don't hit), which promotes a natural 'double pendulum' wrist release. We convert the maximum rotational speed into maximum clubhead speed.

Three things is still too much to think about in 0.2 seconds!! That's why the golf swing is difficult. BUT - there are some simple swing thoughts that can encourage these things to happen:

'Easy from the inside'

''Swing then sling'

'Wrap and release'

I'd be interested to hear of others....

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ChrisGSZ

The problem is - the downswing lasts just 0.2 seconds - not much time to think about anything.

Here's a suggestion:

We now have a lot of high quality research into what makes the golf swing work'. In a nutshell, there are three scientific fundamentals to produce a powerful, straight and effortless shot:

1. Muscular coordination - from the ground up - legs - hips - trunk - shoulders - arms. Each muscle group generates power and passes it on the the next link in the (biokinetic) chain (like a corkscrew). This creates maximum rotational energy.

2. A tight initial downswing radius - keeping the clubhead close to the body (wrap it round your body). This reduces resistance to the rotational energy produced in #1. So we produce maximum rotational speed.

3. A passive wrist release (don't hit), which promotes a natural 'double pendulum' wrist release. We convert the maximum rotational speed into maximum clubhead speed.

Three things is still too much to think about in 0.2 seconds!! That's why the golf swing is difficult. BUT - there are some simple swing thoughts that can encourage these things to happen:

'Easy from the inside'

''Swing then sling'

'Wrap and release'

I'd be interested to hear of others....

Jason Zuback, Steve Stricker, and countless other "sweep releasers" disagree with your second item.

We've worked with golfers on their downswing sequencing. It might last 0.2 seconds, but that doesn't mean we take it to the top of the swing and then just give up. We can still control those motions. We can, in fact, control motions and sequences of motions in much shorter periods of time, particularly those we train (our brain sends the signal to do something in plenty of time for us to do it during the downswing).

[saevel25]

The downswing might last less than 0.5 seconds, but in fact we can control the clubface. Tiger, probably one of the fastest downswings had to save his swing a few times in recent history. The reason is, his muscles know the swing, but when he becomes unbalanced, that muscle memory will take over and correct trying to get the correct feeling at impact. I've had instances in my swing were i can tell that i am falling away from the ball at impact, and i feel my hands turning over a bit more than usually to counter that. The reason i can tell is because i have muscle memory of what i want to do, and my body can tell. Its not like in my mind i am saying, "Crap, save this shot." it just automatically happens, but i can tell when i do it. I can't control it, i am not thinking about it, its just there.

[ChrisGSZ]

Thanks for the above two comments...

I'm well into my 60's - I'm skinny and not very strong. I find a tight radius gives considerably more power. A bigger, younger, stronger guy can use their muscles to generate power very effectively - and they probably have increased control. Swings and roundabouts....

And yes, I agree that we can control the downswing - I was just pointing out that it's very quick and we only have time for one or two thoughts....

[postmanclark]

I enjoy watching and reading information from this section on the forum - as it is more informative than the section 'Instruction and playing tips'; that's why I have posted on this odl . Anyhow in the original video posted, I noticed with the golfer on the right, that his head on the downswing moved closer to the ground and to the target (although it was only a small movement). Is this acceptable? Or should you be trying to reduce all head movements in the golf swing, even on the downswing? I say this because I recently posted my swing and @ @mvmac and helped me reduce head movement in the backswing (thanks again). However, at the moment I am pretty sure I am not getting onto my left side very well. Having tried to replicate the initial downswing move to the left, I find that my head moves lower and to the left, just like the golfer on the right of the video does.

[mvmac]

I enjoy watching and reading information from this section on the forum - as it is more informative than the section 'Instruction and playing tips'; that's why I have posted on this odl . Anyhow in the original video posted, I noticed with the golfer on the right, that his head on the downswing moved closer to the ground and to the target (although it was only a small movement).

Is this acceptable? Or should you be trying to reduce all head movements in the golf swing, even on the downswing?

Depends on the amount of movement and consequence of the movement. You typically see better players lower a bit as they transfer from backswing to downswing. With the golfer in the video, his head barely moves left (if at all). It fulfills the "steady" requirement, Key #1

[9iron]

Ben Hogan's thoughts in his own words, plus video of his swing. Poetry in motion.

[Torres9]

Beautiful, synchronized swing

[Jameson]

I always have the doubt on how to start my downswing. I don´t know exactly if I should slide my hips, or turn them. Also I don´t know the meaning of clear your hips.

[mvmac]

I always have the doubt on how to start my downswing. I don´t know exactly if I should slide my hips, or turn them.

Depends on what your priority piece is.

Also I don´t know the meaning of clear your hips.

[Jameson]

Thank you! I´m going to practise this because I think that when I be able to do this properly I will play much much better than I do now...

[Hammer 4]

Depends on what your priority piece is.

So, I've been doing this drill for what seems like forever, yet after 8 months, I'm still doing it. In fact tonight at the range, and yes, I'm getting better at it...I hit some really nice shots. My bad shots seem to be decreasing as I get more proficient at this drill, I notice that everything in my swing has improved, ball contact % is much higher than even 1 month ago, and needless to say, my accuracy and distance has improved, as I always hit to a target.

Also, when my swing goes south, this drill gets me back on track, and when you ask someone that hits longer than you do, as per this drill, you won't need to ask..you can see in your mind's eye, why they hit farther..well, at least I can, doing it is another story... I guess what I'm saying in a round about way is, this is a great drill for anyone.

[Jameson]

So, I've been doing this drill for what seems like forever, yet after 8 months, I'm still doing it. In fact tonight at the range, and yes, I'm getting better at it...I hit some really nice shots. My bad shots seem to be decreasing as I get more proficient at this drill, I notice that everything in my swing has improved, ball contact % is much higher than even 1 month ago, and needless to say, my accuracy and distance has improved, as I always hit to a target.

Also, when my swing goes south, this drill gets me back on track, and when you ask someone that hits longer than you do, as per this drill, you won't need to ask..you can see in your mind's eye, why they hit farther..well, at least I can, doing it is another story... I guess what I'm saying in a round about way is, this is a great drill for anyone.

How I would like to be at this point !!!