Tiger Wants to Ban the Long Putter

[Clambake]

The logistics of trying to ban long or belly putters are almost overwhelming.    Basically there are two directions they can take -  either place restriction on the equipment or place restrictions on the swing itself.   Think of the issues associated with all the different options:

• Hands must touch?   That rules out split handed grips on normal putters and with other clubs for trouble shots (I've used an iron with a hockey-like grip before to sweep a ball out from under low tree branches).     I doubt the governing bodies would want to go backwards on these methods merely to address the long putter syndrome.
• Don't allow putter handle to touch part of the body other than hands?    What if one holds the top end of the broomstick with one hand and then hold that hand against their body?    The putter isn't touching anything but hands, but it is still an anchored stroke.
• Limit the length?     Probably the most practical of the solutions, but it really only gets rid of the broomstick and not belly putting.

Just like seen in this forum discussion, there are many loopholes or issues associated with almost every possible way of dealing with this.   I think any attempts to create further rules defining what is an acceptable grip or swing are nearly impossible to define.   For this reason, I don't expect the USGA and R&A; will make an attempt to fully legislate out long putters, but they may try to address it by limiting the length of the putter.   It won't satisfy the purists, but it will help stem the tide a bit and is the only real way one can deal with this problem.   It is easy to enforce and can follow the legal precedents set with the groove rulings so there is already case law which will guide any potential litigation.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by Clambake

What if one holds the top end of the broomstick with one hand and then hold that hand against their body?

That would be anchoring the putter, would it not?  Ergo, it would be banned.  I don't see this as being difficult to adjudicate.

The major advantage is in the anchoring, not in the length of the putter or splitting of the hands.  Anchoring greatly reduces the inherent variability in the swing - because there is a point of anchor to the body, obviously.  The word "body" (or equivalent) will have to be defined clearly but I don't think it will be hard to determine if the putter is being held free of the body once the word is defined.  The main issue will be how to deal with holding the handle in a fixed position on the wrist or arm.  Will that be allowed, or will the putter only be allowed to contact the hands?

I see no reason for ruling that the hands much touch.  That is not the issue being addressed imo.  Most of the "issues" brought up in this thread are irrelevant to the case and won't require much single malt to deal with, more's the pity for committee members.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

D. I said a simple 'hands only' rule would be the best likely outcome we could get.

Agreed.

[broomhandle]

I don't fear having to hold my hand free from my body but I can have it definitely clear of my chest itself and still touching even  a single slightly baggy t-shirt.

If you think long putting is ugly now wait till you see me in a skintight shirt so I can make it clear I'm not cheating.

[Chas]

LOL

I might end up being one of those guys holding a long putter free of my chest, with my left elbow sticking way out there pointing the way.

But until I learn to read the frikkin' break properly and then putt what I just blasted well read it would be a waste of time and money.

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by Chas

That would be anchoring the putter, would it not?  Ergo, it would be banned.  I don't see this as being difficult to adjudicate.

I understand where you're coming from Chas, but I guess I feel it is still pretty hard to ban anchoring.   For example, I can hold my left hand right under my chin with my left arm pinned against my ribcage, and could pivot the putter from that point   The hand isn't anchored against the body but is only an inch or so away from my chest and creates a stable pivot point.    We couldn't regulate that the arm can't be held tight against the chest (afterall, many people do the towel-under-the-armpit drill to feel that connection on a full swing), so this would be a way of circumventing the no-anchoring rule.     I just think that dictating where one can hold their hands in the swing is really difficult.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

1. Clearly you have never played golf with low back pain. You stand over a putt for a significantly longer time than over a standard golf shot, and the ache appears. Believe, me, it's different.

You didn't read what I wrote.

People with belly putters adopt the same address posture as people with regular length putters. So there's no benefit there.

People with long putters can putt like Angel Cabrera or Raymond Floyd - a more upright posture that relieves pressure in the lower back, but still putting conventionally (with a putter that's 38" or so).

Belly putters and long putters do nothing, in and of themselves, to help those with "low back pain," especially belly putters.

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

2. I doubt they would care if you or anybody else weren't their fan anymore. The point would be that an integral part of their professional success would be taken away arbitrarily. That smells like a lawsuit to me.

They would care. They're choosing to play a game, and they know the Rules of the Game can change at any time (as they have and will continue to do). I haven't seen any players filing lawsuits in the history of the sport. It's happened roughly once - with PING - and that was a company and there were specific circumstances that lead to that.

Originally Posted by broomhandle

They have said both. Some quotes explicitly state they don't want to ban the long putter. If they leave no feasible way to use it they lied.

They said they're not banning the equipment, they're banning the "method" of using the equipment - i.e. the stroke. So they're not "banning" the long putter. They're not "banning" the belly putter either. They're banning the way both of them tend to be used.

[newtogolf]

I had heard the R&A; wants to ban the long / belly putter before they become as popular in Europe as they are here.  They are also concerned about the perception that US players might be at an advantage using them in Ryder Cup, Olympic type events.  The wording I heard they are adopting is to eliminate anchoring, but weren't specific in their definition of what anchoring was.

[Chas]

Clambake,

Good post.  hmmm, maybe they'll be drinking even more Scotch than I thought in coming up with a definition of "anchoring".  I hope there are a few lawyers amongst them.  At any rate the target-pointing left elbow long putter method should still be legal and ready for me to adopt if all else fails on the greens.

Mind you, my left elbow protrudes quite a bit as it is with the short putter.  Ugly but definitely wrist-stabilizing.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

Do you think your putter is in danger?

I don't, but that is the subject of this thread, with which some posters agree.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by ThominOH

...Now as for the comment of the "spirit" of the game.. If one really wanted to preserve the spirit of the game, they would of never allowed woods to be made of synthetic materials such as titanium.. Same can be said about the change in golf balls.. Both of these changes effected the spirit of the game...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan Gabriel

Golf is not the same game it was 100 years ago.  All things change.  I'm sure old Tom never dreamed of a 460cc driver.  I bet walter hagen never thought of a Titanium driver, or Irons with a titanium face ala Callaway.  I believe these things give an advantage.  If anchoring the club allows the player a better stroke why not allow it?  i don't go for this "spirit of the game" crap either.  If the spirit of the game is what we are after than we need to go back to featheries and hickory clubs played on random fields like the old boys did.  Rules exist to make things fair, so if anyone can use a belly putter if they choose then it is an option open to everyone and therefore should be acceptable.  I do NOT use a belly putter i find them to awkward.  However if it's good for you than fairplay to ya!

All the examples above are with respect to equipment. Based on what we're learning now, if a rule change is made regarding this putter issue it will likely be with respect to how the stroke is made.  While changes to either equipment or stroke definition may indeed affect the spirit of the game, I don't think it's intellectually dishonest at all to take the stance that one can live with equipment improvements, but still prefer that how the club can be swung is more strictly regulated.

Originally Posted by brocks

Feherty, probably among others, recently made the point that it is ridiculous to have the amateur bodies of golf (USGA and R#A) make the rules for the pros. No other major sport does it. The major tours should get together and ban anchoring for pros, and let the amateurs do whatever they want, within reason, to make the game more fun and popular with duffers.

There's actually a thread going on about this (http://thesandtrap.com/t/60692/should-pros-play-by-a-different-set-of-rules). I just wanted to point out here that many people *like* that golf has the same set of rules for both pros and amateurs. It's one of the many things that distinguish golf from other sports (calling penalties on yourself is another example).

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Quote:

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I haven't seen anyone relate Jack's recent comments from February this year, but here they are to add to the discussion.

"...I mean, how many majors have been won with these putters? I guess Keegan uses one. Is he the only one that's ever won a major with that? So I guess it's just been a rampage that's won so many tournaments with it; a flood on the market. (Laughing)."

Thanks for sharing Jack's comments.  I'd be interested to read a follow-up now that there are 3 major winners in the last four using the long putter.  And see if his feeling on the subject has changed.

Indeed. He may not be laughing so much now.

[ejimsmith]

i'm not aware of any other club in your golf bag that is "restricted" by the way the stroke is made.   i can take an iron, turn it upside down, and hit it left handed if i want.  why does putting even need any rules regarding how you're supposed to hit the ball?  it seems real whiny to me to force people to hit only a certain way.   if you're so scared of belly/long putters, then get one yourself.   it seems everyone has a 460cc driver now, and i'm sure there were 'purists' that avoided getting one when they first came out.   if you think you putt better w/ a normal putter, then by all means enjoy it.  just know i think you're a baby when you cry about how many putts i can drop on you.

it seems to me, rather than creating some convoluted rule regarding how you hit your putts, they should remove the restriction on the 'croquet-style' putting form, and let people putt however they want.

[Slim from SF]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I don't think Tiger, or any other athlete, should accuse his fellow players of cheating. Especially when the rule he feels they're breaking doesn't exist yet. It's bad for the game for players to be campaigning to change the rules, unless there's a safety issue, which is only applicable to other sports. Tiger doesn't like the way other guys are playing, which wouldn't be a problem if he was still beating them.

Where did you come up with the cheating comment?  Stating that he believes using a long putter gives one an unfair advantage is much different than claiming his fellow competitors are cheating.

[Slim from SF]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I don't see why Tiger would say anything if he didn't feel the belly putter was a threat to him.

I completely disagree with your assessment of Tiger's motives.  I don't think people using them are a threat to me, nor do I think they are cheating.  But I hate them and wish they were banned.

[Slim from SF]

Originally Posted by JesseV

Pardon my improper use of "could care."

Let me rephrase: I "couldn't care less" what that cheating, family destroying, halfwit, imbecile Eldrick has to say about anything!

Fair enough ...

[Slim from SF]

Originally Posted by Zeph

The shortest club in the bag idea obviously won't work. Perhaps something as simple as "The club must not be anchored against a part of the body that is not the hands" or something like that. You could still sweep the ball with a long putter, but not by anchoring it against your chest or stomach.

Yep, wording it like this is simple and effective.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

i'm not aware of any other club in your golf bag that is "restricted" by the way the stroke is made.   i can take an iron, turn it upside down, and hit it left handed if i want.

You're still swinging at the ball when you do that.

You can't push the ball. You can't pull the ball. You can't scrape or spoon the ball either. Those are "restricted" ways in which the stroke is made, and there are already specific rules about those acts. Anchoring would just be added to the list.

[Slim from SF]

Originally Posted by sammie

It is not difficult for me to understand anchoring. I have qualified for state opens and state amateurs events. I know  the game and follow the history closely. What you guys don't understand is anchoring has gone on for years in different degrees. Players have anchored the putter grips to their forearms and anchor their  elbows to the body. Billy Casper a well know great putter anchored his left arm to his leg. Then we need to review all anchoring. Where do you stop the anchoring. If you guys think it as simple as the club cannot touch your body then you are naive about that. You can anchor the long putter by anchoring you left elbow to your body but the club and hand do not touch the body, that works just as well. Once agaon I respect  your opinions but the topic of anchoring is not just black and white there are so many grey areas.

Good points.  I believe that ALL anchoring should be banned.