Tiger Wants to Ban the Long Putter

[WWBDD]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Or maybe they just want him to do that so they have grounds to criticize him?

IMO, more like they wanted to bring the debate into the public forum to prepare people for the rule change.

The whole thing seems to be media generated.

First, reporters ask Tiger what he thinks about the subject. Then other players are asked for their response to Tiger's remarks, and then the various TGC talking heads have faux/scripted debates on it.

Sounds to me like the long putter is on the way out, and the USGA/PGA are laying the groundwork to prep J6P et al.

FD: I'm often wrong.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by WWBDD

IMO, more like they wanted to bring the debate into the public forum to prepare people for the rule change.

The whole thing seems to be media generated.

First, reporters ask Tiger what he thinks about the subject. Then other players are asked for their response to Tiger's remarks, and then the various TGC talking heads have faux/scripted debates on it.

Sounds to me like the long putter is on the way out, and the USGA/PGA are laying the groundwork to prep J6P et al.

FD: I'm often wrong.

I'd agree with you for the most part.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm just trying to figure out how a 48" putter doesn't come up to your waist.

You bend over when you hit your sand wedge, and full swings have a lot of torque and movement and force to them. I realize staying bent over for a long period of time hurts, but I'm not sure I buy that you can't bend over, hit a putt, and be about as okay as you could expect as if you'd done the same thing hitting a sand wedge.

This is one of those "walk a mile in my shoes" things. Difficult to describe, but when you have a sore back, you notice right away the difference between bending to hit a sand wedge and bending over to putt. I'm not making this up. Best to take my word for it and not have to find out for yourself someday what I am talking about.

[The Recreational Golfer]

When you bend over to putt, you bend over and stay there. The pressure is not relieved until the stroke is over maybe ten seconds later.

When you hit a sand wedge, you bend over, but in just a second or two, start turning your body in the swinging motion. This relieves some of the direct pressure on the lower back.

This is my experience.

There have been days when I couldn't bend over at all, and I didn't get to play. But there are many days when I can bend over to swing, but not to hold myself in a putting position. Hence the 48" putter.

[k-troop]

Someone's MO on this forum seems to be--

1) Start a thread (most likely about Tiger)

2) Bash anyone who responds

3) Take every word of every post as an assertion of absolute fact, even when it's couched as opinion or conclusion

4) Use multi-quotes throughout

5) Repeat

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by WWBDD

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

Or maybe they just want him to do that so they have grounds to criticize him?

IMO, more like they wanted to bring the debate into the public forum to prepare people for the rule change.

The whole thing seems to be media generated.

First, reporters ask Tiger what he thinks about the subject. Then other players are asked for their response to Tiger's remarks, and then the various TGC talking heads have faux/scripted debates on it.

Sounds to me like the long putter is on the way out, and the USGA/PGA are laying the groundwork to prep J6P et al.

FD: I'm often wrong.

I said that a while back when they introduced the relatively benign rule banning "prolonged headphone usage". All calculated steps building up to a long putter ban ban.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

This is one of those "walk a mile in my shoes" things. Difficult to describe, but when you have a sore back, you notice right away the difference between bending to hit a sand wedge and bending over to putt. I'm not making this up. Best to take my word for it and not have to find out for yourself someday what I am talking about.

As a fellow bad backer (2 herniated discs) ... I could never understand why my back would hurt MORE after a putting & chipping practice session than during a full wedge or other full swing kind of practice session.    There is something to the bending over thing involved in the short game that just does a number on my back... no denying that, but I can't explain it.

[brocks]

Someone's MO on this forum seems to be-- 1) Start a thread (most likely about Tiger) 2) Bash anyone who responds 3) Take every word of every post as an assertion of absolute fact, even when it's couched as opinion or conclusion 4) Use multi-quotes throughout 5) Repeat

LOL. Glad to see you don't hold a grudge.

[sammie]

The long or belly putter can be dated back to the 1930′s and now more golfers are winning so lets ban them. How about the drivers and golf balls that many people think are illegal. How about the tight lies hybrids that cut through the rough like a machete. I thought hitting in the rough was a was 1/2 shot penalty, now it is bonus in some shots. Now people have a whole set of hybrids, no irons, you want to talk about cheating.

You have a whole generation of golfers young and old that have used these long putters for years, now we going to say no. In a time when golf couses are hurting for players and you want to limit the use of equipment that has always been legal.

Leo Diegal was using this method of belly putting back in the 30′s. He won majors.  80 plus years it has been around, Johnny Miller, Rocco the list is endless. Billy Casper anchored his arm to his left leg. Were each USGA committees and R&A; committees wrong for so many years.

Finally, there is no grandfathering and no two sets of rules for Pros and amateurs. So one thing I believe is certain, if you outlaw these putters on the pro tours, amateurs won’t touch them and the long putter industry is done. Thus maybe losing more golfers.

[sammie]

I also have no problem with Tigers comments, he in entitled to his opinion. Though I do find it interesting he has come out vocal now.

[zipazoid]

The talking heads at the AT&T; were talking about the long putter yesterday, and the conclusion they drew is, the genie's out of the lamp now & can't be put back in, that it's been around too long to ban. They also opined that if the long putter was indeed such an advantage then why isn't everyone using it?

I don't agree with either point.

To the first, who cares about longevity? The smaller 'British ball' was used for years on the European Tour before it was banned for tournament play. Where was the outcry about how long it was being used?

To the second, obviously it is not an advantage for everyone. Personally, I tried the long putter and it just feels goofy to me. But I got a good putting stroke. So does Ben Crenshaw, far better than mine, and he decries the long putter as well. It has traditionally been the mode of desperation for those that can't putt the traditional way - Bernhard Langer & Orville Moody being good examples. But more recently the younger players like Keegan Bradley are using it. What does that say?

Well, to me it says they've found a shortcut. Anchor the club in your belly & it stabilizes the stroke & removes nerves. And that is the reason it should be banned.

Not banning the long putter, but banning any kind of anchoring of a club against the body. If your stroke is getting twitchy, figure out a way to remove the twitches without using the body as a crutch. In my case, in my early 40s I got that middle-age twitch/yip. Know how I fixed it? I tried crosshand, claw, looking at the hole, choking down so the grip was against my wrist. Anything except anchoring. I found a grip that works - it takes my left hand (I'm left-handed) out of the stroke so it can twitch all it wants without affecting the stroke.

So anchoring is too much of a magic pill that eliminates hard work. That, more than anything, should be reason enough to banning it - one week a guy can't make a four-footer & two weeks later he's rolling everything in with a 52-inch hockey stick stuck in his chest with his elbow flared out. It looks ugly, and it is. Ban it.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

To the first, who cares about longevity? The smaller 'British ball' was used for years on the European Tour before it was banned for tournament play. Where was the outcry about how long it was being used?

I agree. I think too much weight is given to "we've always had that rule" in cases like this. The NFL makes significant changes to its rules almost every year. Just think: a playoff game a decade ago would have kicked off from a different yard line, been played in sudden death in overtime, and not had the two-point conversion. The NFL still survived - golf needs to do more in the interest of golf and care less about "what's always been done" simply for the sake of "what's always been done."

[brocks]

I also have no problem with Tigers comments, he in entitled to his opinion. Though I do find it interesting he has come out vocal now.

I don't understand why people find his timing suspicious. He's getting older, and he's not putting nearly as well as he used to. That sounds like a perfect time to come out in favor of the long putter, not against it.

[sammie]

If we ban the long putter, I think we should ban the illegal drivers and easy shortcut hybrids as well.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Not banning the long putter, but banning any kind of anchoring of a club against the body. If your stroke is getting twitchy, figure out a way to remove the twitches without using the body as a crutch. In my case, in my early 40s I got that middle-age twitch/yip. Know how I fixed it? I tried crosshand, claw, looking at the hole, choking down so the grip was against my wrist. Anything except anchoring. I found a grip that works - it takes my left hand (I'm left-handed) out of the stroke so it can twitch all it wants without affecting the stroke.

So anchoring is too much of a magic pill that eliminates hard work. That, more than anything, should be reason enough to banning it - one week a guy can't make a four-footer & two weeks later he's rolling everything in with a 52-inch hockey stick stuck in his chest with his elbow flared out. It looks ugly, and it is. Ban it.

Ban them.

I needed to take the right hand out (being right handed) and researched hard and long for a grip that was left hand low without being left hand low; and a saw that wasn't a saw - for me, it was a grip that Pat O'Brien (Zach Jonson's short game teacher) has his students adopt for putting. Basically, no part of the right hand is on the grip - the fingers are on the grip, and he tries to keep the hands as even as possible so the shoulders are as level as possible. Works for me. Note: Zach Johnson doesn't use all parts of Pat's grip because Pat didn't want to change what was working for Zach.

If interested, you could once find Pat's grip on his website - it is patobriengolf.com; if not, try seemore.com

[sammie]

Look I respect everyone opinion and I have been playing golf for 37 years. I use the long putter, but still putt decent with the conventional putter. My question is why do people who have issues with putting, that do  not use the long putter, adamant against it? The good putters don't care.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sammie

Look I respect everyone opinion and I have been playing golf for 37 years. I use the long putter, but still putt decent with the conventional putter. My question is why do people who have issues with putting, that do  not use the long putter, adamant against it? The good putters don't care.

I'm a good putter. I care (I'm not "adamant" about it) because I don't think it's how golf is meant to be played, by anchoring a club to your body.

This point of view has been expressed countless times in prior posts in this thread and the others here on TST.

Besides, you'd have a hard time convincing people that Tiger's not a good putter, and he cares.

[topspin4hand]

"ban the illegal drivers"  ??   I don't get this comment about drivers that are already illegal.

Originally Posted by sammie

If we ban the long putter, I think we should ban the illegal drivers and easy shortcut hybrids as well.