Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
GregZ

Question about driver fitting results

14 posts in this topic

Can an extremely low lofted driver for a high handicap hide or exacerbate a poor swing even though the results are great?

I am a high handicapper with an ever "evolving" swing.  This past week, I spent some time with an experienced club fitter that fit me to a Ping G20 8.5 degree driver with the tour stiff stock shaft.  I have never been fit for any clubs, but reading on the internet I just assumed that I would need a higher lofted driver.

My stats for this driver were:  swing speed: ~103 mph.  Launch angle: ~13 degrees and spin: ~2800.  Distance: 240-260.  We tried almost every brand head and shaft combination that I have ever heard of so I felt that he did a very thorough job of fitting me to the equipment for my swing that day.  Should

During my lunch break today, I went to a local store that had the driver in stock and proceeded to hit the driver about 20 times.  The results were the same as before.

Am I over thinking this?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

Loft and handicap aren't really related. Your loft is set more by your swing speed. 8.5 is a bit low (on average) but my understanding is that pretty much every retail head has a higher loft than the one indicated so your Ping might really be closer to a 9.5.  Looking at your numbers they seem to be pretty solid. I think in the ideal world you  should be launching about 1 degree higher and have slightly (~200) less spin but your numbers are close enough to be in the range of machine error.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Handicap is a crappy indicator of driver loft, just like shaft flex. It's more about your angle of attack, swing speed, and spin that determine it. Also as x129 mentioned there can be some trickery with the loft measurements (such as measuring on an angle, making the sole cause it to sit differently at address, or just plain lying), and some designs play differently than others with the same loft.

If you have a low lofted driver and a high handicap, and can get good results, you have a good swing . A low loft would, if anything, be harder to hit than a higher one; if you can launch the one you have and hit it straight, a higher loft probably wouldn't help. Think of your results as indicative of your swing, not your equipment. If you hit the ball well and consistently, leave it alone I'd say.

If you are worried about swing flaws, get lessons. The G20 is a forgiving driver, which is helpful to any level of golfer. Irons and wedges are more important with regards to correcting your striking to get accuracy. If you play a set of shovels (super forgiving irons), maybe they can hide swing flaws, but the driver is a tool for hitting fairways. Think of the irons and wedges as scalpels, while the driver is an axe. If you can put the ball in play with it, it doesn't matter if you can hit targets so much. (And on the subject of forgiving irons, by the way, I have more of a problem with the stupid loft setups and the massive offset than the higher launch and bigger sweetspot. It forces you to slice to hit them straight, essentially, and distance control is more or less shot to hell.)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

In my opinion, yes golf clubbing fitting is very helpful, but it can only help "tune" your swing.  I have a TM R11 which I just do not hit as well as I would like... and I have tried several shafts, some clubs just do not fit some individuals.  It might help if a golf pro helps examine your swing while driving.  I am not the swing advise person, but there is typically a few telling traits leading to a large slice... I'm sure a qualified pro could point out a few items to help rid yourself of a slice.  Best of luck... interested in which driver works best for you.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the responses guys. Ill probably go with the G20 unless I can find a fitter with the new Nike driver locally, I believe its the only one that the fitter didnt have to test out.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I feel the shaft has much more to do with ball flight than the head.  I have 4 Ping drivers, a G15 9.5, G15 10.5, and two identical G20 9.5 with identical stiff shafts.  One of my G20's feels like it is a 13.5 and balloons my balls way up in the air (horrible against the wind) while the other feels much lower and closer to the 9.5 rating.  The difference in identical off the shelf clubs is so startling that it has completely changed my outlook on how important it is to get properly fitted before and after a shaft fitting and club purchase.  Personally I would stay away from an 8.5 and stick to the 9.5 and simply get a shaft that gives me good launch monitor results.  After market shafts that are identical to the shafts that come stock with the shaft are world's apart.  If you don't want to spend a lot for an after market shaft, then get a G20 with a tour preferred shaft, that probably is a better choice and has a little better tolerance control.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the selling points of ordering from this fitter was that the clubs would be assembled by the same ppl or company that puts the PGA pros clubs together instead of some factory machine.  I dont really know if its true but it sounds good and maybe the QA on them would be higher than off the shelf.

At this point I need to stop procrastinating and over analysising things and just order the recommendationed Driver, FWs, and Irons.

Originally Posted by spearq8

Personally I feel the shaft has much more to do with ball flight than the head.  I have 4 Ping drivers, a G15 9.5, G15 10.5, and two identical G20 9.5 with identical stiff shafts.  One of my G20's feels like it is a 13.5 and balloons my balls way up in the air (horrible against the wind) while the other feels much lower and closer to the 9.5 rating.  The difference in identical off the shelf clubs is so startling that it has completely changed my outlook on how important it is to get properly fitted before and after a shaft fitting and club purchase.  Personally I would stay away from an 8.5 and stick to the 9.5 and simply get a shaft that gives me good launch monitor results.  After market shafts that are identical to the shafts that come stock with the shaft are world's apart.  If you don't want to spend a lot for an after market shaft, then get a G20 with a tour preferred shaft, that probably is a better choice and has a little better tolerance control.



0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GregZ,

What the others have said is pretty well on target. But, we would need more info from you to answer your original question - will a low-lofted driver hide swing flaws .

You have a 27 HDCP... are you pretty new to the game? Is your swing still stabilizing? Have you had lessons recently, if so, are they helping?

You have a high driver clubhead speed... Any chance you overswing on your irons, causing control problems at the top?

Flipping the question, if you hit the driver really well but struggle elsewhere, could your driver swing give you clues to improve overall swing?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Some background info:

I have been playing for about 6 years and really had no idea what i was doing until about 2 years when I made an effort to swing better and play more often. Lots of youTube videos brought my typical score down to 94-100, but I was still spraying balls left and right.

This past November I started Evolvr lessons and they have made my ball striking 100% better on all clubs 5i-LW. I can now control where the ball goes most of the time on the shorter clubs, but still struggle with the longer clubs even though I fell like the swing isnt that bad. Therefore, for the past month I have been thinking that maybe its the shaft flex on my woods being the culprit to spraying balls in all directions. My current set is an Adams GT2 Driver-pw with regular flex shafts that I wasnt fitted for and knew nothing about golf when I bought them on the internet.

My entire fitting results where:

Driver and FWs: G20 8.5 Tour Stiff

Hybrids: Couldnt hit a 3 or 4 to save my life. No recomendations.

4-PW: AP1, XPS300 .5 inch longer, 2degrees upright

GW, SW, LW: Cleveland 588's .5 inches longer.

I am pretty dedicated to learning more and playing better golf.  It just seemed strange that i could hit an 8.5 degree driver that well with straight flight and it feels so solid when hit.  Part of my apprehension is that I dont want to buy equipment that would neccesary be bad for my swing mechanics, but I dont know that i can argue with the results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WUTiger

GregZ,

What the others have said is pretty well on target. But, we would need more info from you to answer your original question - will a low-lofted driver hide swing flaws.

You have a 27 HDCP... are you pretty new to the game? Is your swing still stabilizing? Have you had lessons recently, if so, are they helping?

You have a high driver clubhead speed... Any chance you overswing on your irons, causing control problems at the top?

Flipping the question, if you hit the driver really well but struggle elsewhere, could your driver swing give you clues to improve overall swing?



0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought Id update for my own musings.

Ive spent six range sessions demoing the driver recommended to me and videoing it each time and have come away with an understanding of how I was hitting it so well one day but not every time.  I flip the club massively and when my timing is perfect, I hit it great, but my timing isnt perfect very often.  My setup for the driver has been to tee the ball up atleast 4 inches just past my forward toe. I purposely have always tried to bottom out about 8 inches behind the ball to hit it on the upswing aswell.  I also tend to move my upper center forward a lot too.

In doing some searching I have found what appears to be proper setup so Im gonna give it a try and send in a video to evolvr.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recently hit the G20 and it felt pretty good. I have been trying to get the ball to the 13 degree launch angle without adding the extra spin. Something that helped me was getting the aldila rip shaft. It has less torque than most shafts and really has lengthened my drives. It also has made me way more accurate. If you like the G20 check out the titleist D3. I love mine.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:

My stats for this driver were:  swing speed: ~103 mph.  Launch angle: ~13 degrees and spin: ~2800.  Distance: 240-260.  We tried almost every brand head and shaft combination that I have ever heard of so I felt that he did a very thorough job of fitting me to the equipment for my swing that day.  Should

103 mph, you might be able to get away with a tour stiff (x-stiff) shaft. But you might be loosing some loading in the shaft at that speed. Might want to try just a stiff shaft.

The loft on the clubhead has little to do with launch angle, you'll get more change if you go from a high kick to a low kick on the golf shaft, as well as stiffness of the shaft. Basically the loft on the club will dictate spin on the ball.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I think I pretty much wasted the driver part of my fitting by not having a sound repetable swing and setup when hitting the driver.  Therefore, I dont think its smart to buy a new driver right now, but I do think i need a different driver shaft than the swim noodle like shaft that I have been using.  I did really enjoy hitting the G20 and it felt very solid, but my swing is going to have to change and Im not sure if after changes that I will need such a low lofted driver.  Ill be shopping for a used one this week and maybe an adjustable one at that.

Thanks for all the replies,

Greg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Originally Posted by GregZ

My setup for the driver has been to tee the ball up atleast 4 inches just past my forward toe. I purposely have always tried to bottom out about 8 inches behind the ball to hit it on the upswing aswell.  I also tend to move my upper center forward a lot too.

In doing some searching I have found what appears to be proper setup so Im gonna give it a try and send in a video to evolvr.



Hi Greg, those numbers you shared from the driver fitting look great, 13* launch with 2800 spin.

4 inches past the forward toe may be too far forward, play just forward of your left armpit.  Look forward to seeing you on Evolvr

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • The progressive wing of the Dem party hates Kaine. He is pro TPP and favors deregulation to wall street. However he brings in VA and has a solid record on many issues for moderate Dems.
      I would not be surprised if you see Bernie speak at the DNC. He will tell his supporters that even though HRC is not their first choice he (Bernie) will have a better chance of working with  her for their issues, than DT! I hear they are countering Baio with prime time slot speech from Erin Moran!!!!!
    • Newtogolf's post is important.  I do not like hanging around people that are used to having a staff.  I just went on a raft trip with a friend of almost 50 years.  We do our own trips, and it is important for everyone to pitch in as it is a lot of work for guys in their 60s.  My friend just retired from being a doctor, and never really figured out how to help for the good of the group. He kept wanting to consider himself a "guest."   That is after we had some long discussions about being part of the team.  He will not be invited back. I would not want to play golf with people that are used to having a caddy either.   
    • Most double bogies, especially from the average golfer don't come from "taking risks", they come from a poor swing that results in OB, water hazard, lost in the woods, whatever.  A decent player can still break 80 with a double or two for exactly that reason, it's only a couple of bad swings.   The reason that most golfers never break 80 is that they make a lot of those bad swings, that add up.  But even good golfers, who break 80 (or better) consistently, will have the occasional bad swing that will result in a penalty and subsequently a double, or worse.   Which is "harder" is a matter of skill level. For me, someone who, as the OP asked, is as likely to break 80 as not, if I had to bet on the result of any given round before the first tee, I'd bet that I break 80 over a DB free round of any score.  Higher handicap players will find the opposite.  Scratch or better players will seldom fail to break 80, but will still have their share of individual blowup holes.  They'll just use their superior play on the remaining 16 or 17 holes to offset the couple of bad swings. 
    • I don't know enough about his situation.  Maybe not immediately -- he wouldn't qualify for the PGA Championship or the FedEx Cup playoffs (you can't earn points as a non-member, which he is for this event).  But probably by end of summer to start the 2016-17 PGA Tour season as a member.  Unless I'm forgetting someone, he'd be the third amateur to win a PGA Tour event in my lifetime (Verplank, Mickelson). 
    • Thanks.  I figured I would have heard by now if it made a difference, but I'm glad to hear it just the same. I tee off in just over three hours for my first round with the game golf.  
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

  • Blog Entries