How to stop the pull fade and hit it straight?

[Jonnyy8699]

Yes I know a pull fade will most of the time end up somewhat straight, but I feel like I am losing a lot of distance. First off, the fact that a lot of energy is being used to go in curve, instead of all straight forward, and a the fact that a fade will reduce distance because of the lost smash factor. Also, the roll out, which is steadily increasing as the weather gets dryer, is going towards the right rough instead of the green because the ball is coming in from the left side instead of coming straight from the tee box. I just need to hit it straight, whether it be a push or pull, I can deal with by playing with my stance and alignment, as long as the trajectory doesn't curve. I hit a pull fade only with my driver and 3 wood, and my irons rarely have any curve. My coach is telling me I need to swing in to out more, and also my finish is ending up more out to the side of my body instead of above it with my driver. I feel like my spin on my driver is out of control, because  a while ago I remember seeing my backspin on a launch monitor and it was unusually high, along with too much sidespin. Also because I have a fairly high swing speed, certainly a lot higher than a few guys on my team, and I almost always hit the ball in the center of the face, but even when I hit it dead straight, which is very rare, I can't out drive them. In the past I have gotten my average drives to go about 220-245 and straight, but that was when I was still messing with my swing. Now they go around 200 with the pull fade. So any advice?

Also I was thinking of getting fitted for a shaft, but I don't have a lot of money right now so it would be great to get some swing improvements. Thanks guys.

[Golfingdad]

Full disclosure first .. I am not an instructor, just a mediocre golfer offering 2 cents.  Take it for what it's worth.  Now that that is out of the way ...

I think your coach is probably correct.  The pull-fade is caused by the out to in swing path combined with an open club face (relative to that path)  The ideal swing path would be inside-square-inside, but I think exaggerating the move is a good way to unlearn something you've got ingrained.  At least to get the feel for it.  I like to picture a baseball field on the range and try to drill one to the right-center field gap (as a right hander)

Anyways, I'm sure you will get some tips on here from some pros too, so good luck.

[mvmac]

I would recommend taking a look at this video.  This advice is for a draw pattern.  Set-up with the hips more forward, head centered and the hands more forward.  Make sure on the downswing the belt buckle goes forward.  This will help you get the outward path.  For a pull fade you'll usually see the weight or hands too far back or the hips not going forward enough on the downswing.

[awesome1975]

I have the exact same problem. And I know mine is from being OTT.  Pull/ slice on almost every shot.

I think I have only been able to draw the the ball one time, and hit it straight very rarely. I have noticed like you said that my finish with the driver is more on the outside of my body. And I am usually falling off balance at that point.

What is weird is when I actually line up for a draw and try to swing from the inside/out i actually still get a pull/fade just with a lower trajectory.

Thanks for posting, I will keep checking here for some good tips.

Let me know if you find something that helps..

[iacas]

Pull fades and pull slices are simply the path coming well to the left (for a righty).

Fix that, worry about the face later. You might not end up having to do much with the face. Fix the path.

No video? Best guess (~90% of the time): your hands aren't gaining the proper amount of depth. They're going too much back and up while missing too much of the "in."

[jl923]

Where should the hands be at the top of the backswing (right shoulder, above it, below it?)? I mean from my perspective while swinging club and not video from DTL.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by jl923

Where should the hands be at the top of the backswing (right shoulder, above it, below it?)? I mean from my perspective while swinging club and not video from DTL.

I would say hands are above and behind the right shoulder.  Good way to get the hands deeper is to swing with a tee or glove under the left arm pit and allow the right leg to lose some of it's flex so the hips can turn

[behing19]

Originally Posted by Jonnyy8699

Yes I know a pull fade will most of the time end up somewhat straight, but I feel like I am losing a lot of distance. First off, the fact that a lot of energy is being used to go in curve, instead of all straight forward, and a the fact that a fade will reduce distance because of the lost smash factor. Also, the roll out, which is steadily increasing as the weather gets dryer, is going towards the right rough instead of the green because the ball is coming in from the left side instead of coming straight from the tee box. I just need to hit it straight, whether it be a push or pull, I can deal with by playing with my stance and alignment, as long as the trajectory doesn't curve. I hit a pull fade only with my driver and 3 wood, and my irons rarely have any curve. My coach is telling me I need to swing in to out more, and also my finish is ending up more out to the side of my body instead of above it with my driver. I feel like my spin on my driver is out of control, because  a while ago I remember seeing my backspin on a launch monitor and it was unusually high, along with too much sidespin. Also because I have a fairly high swing speed, certainly a lot higher than a few guys on my team, and I almost always hit the ball in the center of the face, but even when I hit it dead straight, which is very rare, I can't out drive them. In the past I have gotten my average drives to go about 220-245 and straight, but that was when I was still messing with my swing. Now they go around 200 with the pull fade. So any advice?

Also I was thinking of getting fitted for a shaft, but I don't have a lot of money right now so it would be great to get some swing improvements. Thanks guys.

I will give you full disclosure too....I graduated from the Golf Academy of America with a near perfect GPA and a teaching certificate.  I went from a 22 handicap to under 6.  I used to slice the ball like crazy and got to a pull fade like you did at one point as well.  I smash the ball nearly 300 yards now and hit it pretty straight.

First, you don't want to hit a pull or push regularly, even if it goes straight.  Second, expect some curve on your tee shots.....it is very, very difficult to hit the ball straight, but you can eliminate enough curve to make it very powerful and controllable.

I have two tips for you.  One, remember, to hit the ball straighter when you fade it regularly, the toe of the club must win the race to the golf ball.  If you work on feeling the toe of the club win the race, you will see straighter shots and maybe even a draw (which means more distance).

Two, practice keeping your back to the target as long as possible in your swing.  This will help you eliminate the pull, which is caused by opening your shoulder too soon.  My teacher even had me working on this on the course for quite some time.  He wanted me to only have the swing thought of keeping my back to the target as long as possible.

Understand this is a process and you are not going to hit every single one perfect, but if you work on these two tips, you will learn to feel when you hit a bad one and you will know how to correct it.  These two things can help eliminate the pull and cut down on the fade.  This will give you more distance, and you will get the explosion you are looking for.

Hope this helps!

Benjamin Ehinger

[mdl]

Quote:

No video? Best guess (~90% of the time): your hands aren't gaining the proper amount of depth. They're going too much back and up while missing too much of the "in."

This didn't result in a pull slice for me.  I'd put the club face way inside the hands and end up with the club pointing right of the target at the top of the back swing, then hit mostly pushes or push-fades.  But the problem (hands not deep), and the fix (get hands deep!) for me was the same, more "in" to go with the back and up.

One thing I'd say to the OP about fixing this.  If you are in fact having this problem, and you start trying to get to a "proper" position at P2, P3, and P4, for me at least this feels like both my hands and the club face go in (feels very very deep at first) and back to P2, and then straight up!  I was used to going back and up without going in enough, which forced me to sort of roll my wrists over bow them a bit and wrap the club head around at the top just to get somewhere near a reasonable position at P4, which definitely can promote a very spinny swing.

If this sounds familiar, then starting the swing with your hands deep enough and in line with the club face at P2 will mean that you can't do that wrist roll to wrap thing, and getting to reasonable P4 from that new, deep, P2 position is going to feel like you're taking your hands straight up!

Also, for me at least, getting to that hands deep position and staying on plane meant learning to keep my right elbow more tucked and to set my wrists earlier in my swing than I used to.  I used to be reaching back and very much not deep at P2 and probably had like a 135˚ angle between my forearm and the shaft.  Now I'm setting my wrists much earlier and have something more like a 110-115˚ angle at P2.

[Jonnyy8699]

Originally Posted by iacas

Pull fades and pull slices are simply the path coming well to the left (for a righty).

Fix that, worry about the face later. You might not end up having to do much with the face. Fix the path.

No video? Best guess (~90% of the time): your hands aren't gaining the proper amount of depth. They're going too much back and up while missing too much of the "in."

I have been trying to adjust my swing path, but I can't seem to do it consciously. Perhaps a different take away will effect the club path positively? And when you say they aren't getting the proper amount of depth, what do you mean? On the take away? And where is the depth coming from? If you mean that the club head on the take away is staying in line with the ball too long and not going inside at all, I think I get it.

Also, I will try to get some video up soon. Thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by behing19

I will give you full disclosure too....I graduated from the Golf Academy of America with a near perfect GPA and a teaching certificate.  I went from a 22 handicap to under 6.  I used to slice the ball like crazy and got to a pull fade like you did at one point as well.  I smash the ball nearly 300 yards now and hit it pretty straight.

First, you don't want to hit a pull or push regularly, even if it goes straight.  Second, expect some curve on your tee shots.....it is very, very difficult to hit the ball straight, but you can eliminate enough curve to make it very powerful and controllable.

I have two tips for you.  One, remember, to hit the ball straighter when you fade it regularly, the toe of the club must win the race to the golf ball.  If you work on feeling the toe of the club win the race, you will see straighter shots and maybe even a draw (which means more distance).

Two, practice keeping your back to the target as long as possible in your swing.  This will help you eliminate the pull, which is caused by opening your shoulder too soon.  My teacher even had me working on this on the course for quite some time.  He wanted me to only have the swing thought of keeping my back to the target as long as possible.

Understand this is a process and you are not going to hit every single one perfect, but if you work on these two tips, you will learn to feel when you hit a bad one and you will know how to correct it.  These two things can help eliminate the pull and cut down on the fade.  This will give you more distance, and you will get the explosion you are looking for.

Hope this helps!

Benjamin Ehinger

Yes that is actually really helpful, thank you. I will be trying those two things next time I go to the range. Actually, lately I have been trying to turn my hands over earlier and close the face earlier on the downswing, which I am hoping will reduce the fade, which it sometimes does, and sometimes it turns into a snap hook. Also, I keep pulling it, so the combination of severely turning my hands over, and my pull I can't get rid of, I will hit the ball well left, so I have been playing the pull fade on the course. But I feel like once I fix the pull, the releasing of the club will be the last bit to making the perfect shot. (If such a thing exists.) Also, I assume this is what you meant by telling me to have the toe of the club win the race to the golf ball. You mean to release the club and turn the hands over correct?

And the back to the target thing, I'm surprised my coach didn't mention anything like that. I will try that also next time I am at the range. Perhaps that is why my club face is opening; my body is getting ahead of my hands, pulling my arms to the inside, opening the club face, and with the combination of a out to in swing path, and that open face, that's where I am getting my pull fade from.

As I said above, I will be getting some video up for you guys, thanks!

Originally Posted by mdl

Quote:

This didn't result in a pull slice for me.  I'd put the club face way inside the hands and end up with the club pointing right of the target at the top of the back swing, then hit mostly pushes or push-fades.  But the problem (hands not deep), and the fix (get hands deep!) for me was the same, more "in" to go with the back and up.

One thing I'd say to the OP about fixing this.  If you are in fact having this problem, and you start trying to get to a "proper" position at P2, P3, and P4, for me at least this feels like both my hands and the club face go in (feels very very deep at first) and back to P2, and then straight up!  I was used to going back and up without going in enough, which forced me to sort of roll my wrists over bow them a bit and wrap the club head around at the top just to get somewhere near a reasonable position at P4, which definitely can promote a very spinny swing.

If this sounds familiar, then starting the swing with your hands deep enough and in line with the club face at P2 will mean that you can't do that wrist roll to wrap thing, and getting to reasonable P4 from that new, deep, P2 position is going to feel like you're taking your hands straight up!

Also, for me at least, getting to that hands deep position and staying on plane meant learning to keep my right elbow more tucked and to set my wrists earlier in my swing than I used to.  I used to be reaching back and very much not deep at P2 and probably had like a 135˚ angle between my forearm and the shaft.  Now I'm setting my wrists much earlier and have something more like a 110-115˚ angle at P2.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I am getting any of this haha, excuse my stupidity. I am not familiar with P1 P2 ect. But I feel like the first paragraph you mentioned might help, would you mind clarifying? Sorry for the trouble haha.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Jonnyy8699

I have been trying to adjust my swing path, but I can't seem to do it consciously. Perhaps a different take away will effect the club path positively? And when you say they aren't getting the proper amount of depth, what do you mean? On the take away? And where is the depth coming from? If you mean that the club head on the take away is staying in line with the ball too long and not going inside at all, I think I get it.

Also, I will try to get some video up soon. Thanks for your help!

Check this Thread out

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by Jonnyy8699

Yes that is actually really helpful, thank you. I will be trying those two things next time I go to the range. Actually, lately I have been trying to turn my hands over earlier and close the face earlier on the downswing, which I am hoping will reduce the fade, which it sometimes does, and sometimes it turns into a snap hook. Also, I keep pulling it, so the combination of severely turning my hands over, and my pull I can't get rid of, I will hit the ball well left, so I have been playing the pull fade on the course. But I feel like once I fix the pull, the releasing of the club will be the last bit to making the perfect shot. (If such a thing exists.) Also, I assume this is what you meant by telling me to have the toe of the club win the race to the golf ball. You mean to release the club and turn the hands over correct?

You are pulling the ball because the club face is closed with respect to your target line. You are fading the ball because your swing path is further left than the direction your club face is pointing.

That is why when you sucessfully close the face even further you hit a snap hook (starts left, curves further left).

The advice your coach is giving you is sound, you need to fix your swing path and swing more in to out, or at least less out to in. With your swing path, unless you start lining your body up right of the target (ie. closed), a pull fade is the only shot you're going to be able to hit that will end up where you're aiming.

This article will help you diagnose your swing path and face direction based on the ball flight you see:

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

[mdl]

Quote:

One thing I'd say to the OP about fixing this.  If you are in fact having this problem, and you start trying to get to a "proper" position at P2, P3, and P4, for me at least this feels like both my hands and the club face go in (feels very very deep at first) and back to P2, and then straight up!  I was used to going back and up without going in enough, which forced me to sort of roll my wrists over bow them a bit and wrap the club head around at the top just to get somewhere near a reasonable position at P4, which definitely can promote a very spinny swing.

If this sounds familiar, then starting the swing with your hands deep enough and in line with the club face at P2 will mean that you can't do that wrist roll to wrap thing, and getting to reasonable P4 from that new, deep, P2 position is going to feel like you're taking your hands straight up!

Also, for me at least, getting to that hands deep position and staying on plane meant learning to keep my right elbow more tucked and to set my wrists earlier in my swing than I used to.  I used to be reaching back and very much not deep at P2 and probably had like a 135˚ angle between my forearm and the shaft.  Now I'm setting my wrists much earlier and have something more like a 110-115˚ angle at P2.

OP said this didn't make sense.  For positions (Erik switch to calling them by A instead of P) check out this thread: http://thesandtrap.com/a/big-list-of-golf-terminology

P2 is when your club first gets parallel to the ground at the start of the back swing.  P3 is left arm parallel to the ground on the back swing.  P4 is top of backswing, where the club should be at least approximately parallel to the ground and pointing at your target.  My point was just that if you look at the deep hands thread linked above, you start with your hands going "deep", so sort of flatter, more in, then as your right elbow bends you move them up more.  I hadn't been doing it quite that way and switching to that at first felt like I would get to P2  with my hands deep and the club pointing directly backwards instead of behind me, and then essentially raise my hands and the club face straight up, and the down swing felt very vertical, though not quite straight down.  Just noting that if you're checking yourself on video and in the mirror and you're getting to the "right" positions, it might feel very weird for quite a while.