Tiger Injures Achilles Tendon

[mvmac]

For those that haven't seen or want to continue to talk and speculate about Tiger's latest WD

Is Tiger done for a while?

Was this just playing it safe so he has a chance at playing in the Masters?

Quote:

Woods suffered a “mild strain to his left Achilles,” along with a ligament sprain in his left knee, hitting out of the pine straw under the Eisenhower Tree adjacent the 17th hole at Augusta National last year in Round 3 and sources suggested at the time that the ailment was much more concerning than his often-ailing left knee.

Physical trainer types agree an Achilles injury is fickle, slow to heal and easily re-injured, all of which made Woods’ statement even more worrisome.

“I felt tightness in my left Achilles warming up this morning, and it continued to get progressively worse. After hitting my tee shot at 12, I decided it was necessary to withdraw,” Woods’ statement read. “In the past, I may have tried to continue to play, but this time, I decided to do what I thought was necessary.”

Woods said he plans to have the Achilles “evaluated sometime early next week,” but that will do little in the short term to quiet speculation that had already reached a crescendo before Sunday’s leaders reached the turn at Doral.

[zipazoid]

My guess is he will pull out of Bay Hill & the next time we see him is Augusta.

[newtogolf]

He's had enough leg problems to know when to push and when to quit.  I doubt we'll see him before the Masters but if his achilles isn't right then he'll probably withdraw from it as well.  He can't risk a more serious injury that costs him the rest of the season.

[iacas]

The seriousness of this injury will dramatically affect the predictions I and others have made or will make about his likelihood to win again, win a major, catch Jack's record, etc.

[newtogolf]

Agreed.  I'm not a swing expert but is it it possible that his swing with Foley has resolved some of the problems with his knee but placed more torque on his achilles or has he just not have enought time to heal from Augusta National?

Originally Posted by iacas

The seriousness of this injury will dramatically affect the predictions I and others have made or will make about his likelihood to win again, win a major, catch Jack's record, etc.

[walk18]

My theory is that all these injuries are at least partially from working out, lifting very heavy weights. You can easily tear the Achilles trying to squat or dead lift too much weight. Tiger's always been such a gym rat, and it wasn't necessary for golf. He wanted to be huge, but now he's ruined his body. He hit it plenty long when he used to be skinny.

[Deryck Griffith]

I'm very happy he withdrew instead of playing through the injury risking tearing the achilles all together as it hopefully gives him a chance to addresses the issue.

That said, this is very conerning.  Very very concerning.  We will see what happens over the upcoming days but we can count on him missing Bay Hill which is too bad.

However besides Bay Hill, in a big picutre type of thought, if these injuries continue to come up every year or so, can any of you see an early Retirement from Tiger Woods?  Obviously not THIS year but when he's 40 or just pas 40?  His body isn't getting younger and you have to think that these injuries will continue to come up....Thoughts?

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by walk18

My theory is that all these injuries are at least partially from working out, lifting very heavy weights. You can easily tear the Achilles trying to squat or dead lift too much weight. Tiger's always been such a gym rat, and it wasn't necessary for golf. He wanted to be huge, but now he's ruined his body. He hit it plenty long when he used to be skinny.

Running has always been listed as the likely culprit for all Tiger's leg maladies. I can attest to this as someone who has been working out with heavy weights for 20+ years and is also a runner. All my leg injuries (knee, hamstring, achilles and plantar fasciitis), have been the direct result of running. I have never had a lower body injury as the result of squats or deadlifts. The doctor told me on numerous occasions to stop running on pavement, but never told me to curtail my lifting activities.

[zipazoid]

Well, yeah. It is definitely a huge concern insofar as longevity. If the body is breaking down at age 36 it's hard to picture him playing well at age 46...or even playing competitively.

Jack was talking about this last week at the Honda. He used his own example by saying he didn't swing the same way at age 36 that he did at 26, and didn't swing the same at 46 that he did at 36. He had to make concessions to the aging process. I don't know if Tiger is doing that - it appears that he is still in 'young man's mode' that says to do whatever it takes to hit the ball they way you want to hit it & the body will just adapt to it.

Well, it's not in Tiger's case. He has injuries, and it would serve him well to learn a swing that acknowledges & compensates for those injuries. Identify what it he's doing that causes strains to his Achilles & knee, then stop doing those things.

He's getting to the age where he has to win with his mind more than his body. Unfortunately, he's an old 36 physically. But he can take solace from Ben Hogan, who fractured his pelvis & had numerous broken bones from the car accident in 1949, retooled his swing to compensate then won a bunch of majors.

They key is his mind. He has to outsmart the other players. He cannot rely on the body to get him the wins anymore.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

But he can take solace from Ben Hogan, who fractured his pelvis & had numerous broken bones from the car accident in 1949, retooled his swing to compensate then won a bunch of majors.

I think the game is vastly different - and the competition much stiffer throughout the entire lineup - than it was back then. And even in Jack's day.

[walk18]

Quote:

Originally Posted by walk18

My theory is that all these injuries are at least partially from working out, lifting very heavy weights. You can easily tear the Achilles trying to squat or dead lift too much weight. Tiger's always been such a gym rat, and it wasn't necessary for golf. He wanted to be huge, but now he's ruined his body. He hit it plenty long when he used to be skinny.

Running has always been listed as the likely culprit for all Tiger's leg maladies. I can attest to this as someone who has been working out with heavy weights for 20+ years and is also a runner. All my leg injuries (knee, hamstring, achilles and plantar fasciitis), have been the direct result of running. I have never had a lower body injury as the result of squats or deadlifts. The doctor told me on numerous occasions to stop running on pavement, but never told me to curtail my lifting activities.

I can only guess that you weren't squatting obscene amounts of weight, because a golfing buddy of mine tore both his doing exactly that. Though I will agree that running on pavement can be tough on you as well.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think the game is vastly different - and the competition much stiffer throughout the entire lineup - than it was back then. And even in Jack's day.

It's still about getting it into the hole in the fewest amount of strokes. And my point was, Tiger is going to have to rely more on his mind than his body to win now. If he needs inspiration, he can look to what Hogan went thru, regardless if whether it was in a different era.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Well, yeah. It is definitely a huge concern insofar as longevity. If the body is breaking down at age 36 it's hard to picture him playing well at age 46...or even playing competitively.

Jack was talking about this last week at the Honda. He used his own example by saying he didn't swing the same way at age 36 that he did at 26, and didn't swing the same at 46 that he did at 36. He had to make concessions to the aging process. I don't know if Tiger is doing that - it appears that he is still in 'young man's mode' that says to do whatever it takes to hit the ball they way you want to hit it & the body will just adapt to it.

Well, it's not in Tiger's case. He has injuries, and it would serve him well to learn a swing that acknowledges & compensates for those injuries. Identify what it he's doing that causes strains to his Achilles & knee, then stop doing those things.

He's getting to the age where he has to win with his mind more than his body. Unfortunately, he's an old 36 physically. But he can take solace from Ben Hogan, who fractured his pelvis & had numerous broken bones from the car accident in 1949, retooled his swing to compensate then won a bunch of majors.

They key is his mind. He has to outsmart the other players. He cannot rely on the body to get him the wins anymore.

I thought the reason he changed teachers to Sean Foley and retooled his swing was exactly because his old swing was too hard on his body and particularly his knees.

[k-troop]

Am I the only one who thinks Tiger's WD is unsportsmanlike?  If I am, I'll re-think my position.  But here's what we know--

--Tiger's achilles is part of what kept him out of most of the 2010 season.

--Tiger felt the tightness during his warm-up during the a.m., and it didn't go away during his warm-up session.

--Tiger shot 62 last Sunday, and his ballstriking has been really good for a few weeks.

--Tiger withdrew when he was +3 or +4 through 11.

--By his own public statement, Tiger wasn't going to have his achilles checked out immediately after the WD.  He was going to get it looked at "sometime early next week."

My Conclusion:  Tiger felt the pain, but thought he could play through it when he had a chance to win.  He made the decision to quit only after it was apparent that he could not win.

Before knee-jerk reacting to this and saying horrible things about my parents, consider this:  Do you think Tiger would have quit if he were 3 shots back?

Is this not unsportsmanlike?  In our game, is it okay to allow "well, I can' win now" to be a factor in deciding whether it's okay to quit?

Critiques to this conclusion:

1. Tiger has a big fat well-paid doctor.  He called the doctor, who told him to elevate, ice, avoid, and see him in a few days when he could better evaluate whether it was a flare-up or a re-injury.  That's not "getting it checked out" in Tiger's mind.  Therefore, we can't conclude that Tiger's injury is minor just because he said "I'll be getting it checked out later this week."

--Counterpoint to 1:  why didn't Tiger just say that?  How hard is it to say:  "I spoke with my Doctor, he told me that he would be able to tell better in a few days whether this was just a painful flare-up or a re-injury..." if that's what really happened?

2. He was realistically out of contention late in the back nine, but played 3 or 4 more holes.  So he didn't quit "when it was apparent he couldn't win."

--Counterpoint to 2:  Do you think he would have quit on 12 if he was 2 or 3 behind the leader?  If you think he would have kept playing, then it should be apparent to you that the fact that he couldn't win factored into quitting.

3. Tiger couldn't have realistically thought that he could win when he teed it up.

--Counterpoint to 3:  That statement goes against everything Tiger stands for, and his 62 last Sunday tends to undercut this assumption.

4. Tiger's injury was getting worse throughout the day.

--Counterpoint to 4:  I'm not sure what point this makes.  Tiger was still walking.  He drove home.  He's played in FAR WORSE pain when he was in contention.  And, again:  would he have quit if he was still in contention?

5. Tiger's achilles/knee has kept him out of part of two seasons in the last 4 years.  A re-injury could cost him another season, millions of dollars (who cares), Jack's record, Ryder Cup, etc.

--Counterpoint to 5:  Then he should have never teed it up Sunday.  He should have walked from the range to the press tent and explained the situation.  If Doral is just a little warm-up on his quest for Majors glory, then how can he justify teeing it up on Sunday at all it if it risks the entire rest of his career?  (The only way is if he wins the tournament, ergo, he quit after it was clear that he couldn't win.)

I've thought about this a lot.  I don't see how you can look at the WD without seeing that "I couldn't win" factored into his decision to quit.  I also can't believe that is okay, given what our sport is about.  Bobby Jones quit in the middle of his first Open Championship.  Most folks agree that was a (if not THE) low point in his career.  Golfers and Sportsmen don't quit in the middle of a round just because they can't win.  I'm willing to reconsider this conclusion, but I'll need to be convinced.

[newtogolf]

Weight lifting and running can hurt your knees in different ways.  Running is a high impact activity, and depending on the distance, speed and surface you run on, you're going to over time have some damage done to the knees from the constant impact.  Knee damage from running is usually the meniscus, runners knee, stress fractures and erosion of the cartilage.

Weight lifting can cause knees problems if you're not careful to work all the muscles that support the knee.  The quads, hamstrings, abductors, adductors and calves all support the knee if you over develop some of these muscles (like the quads) it can cause knee problems because the tension on the knee isn't equal and causes it to not be evenly supported.

I'd guess given his injuries, Tiger focused more work out time on his quads and hamstrings and they became over developed compared to his calves and that has contributed to him having issues with his knee and Achilles.

[zipazoid]

I think being out of contention factored into his decision to WD.

But rather than taking the negative angle by calling it unsportsmanlike, I take the opposite view, and that's this -

He pushed himself to play when he should have WD'd before the round because he was in contention. In other words, he was willing to risk exacerbating the injury for the chance to win. And yes, once that chance was snuffed out, he shut it down. To me, that's not unsportsmanlike; it's being too competitive.

[Nole77]

I'd say that being that far down definitely played into his decision to withdraw, why wouldn't it?  I also don't believe it's unsportsmanlike at all.  See the bold part below.  He didn't quit just because he was behind, there were extenuating circumstances, ie. further injury, ability to play in the masters, etc..  Why did Bobby Jones quit in the middle of his first Open Championship?  According to Wikipedia

Quote:

Jones had a unique relationship with the town of St Andrews , Scotland. On his first appearance on the Old Course in The Open Championship of 1921, he withdrew after 11 holes in the third round, when he failed to complete the hole (in effect disqualifying himself), and tore up his scorecard, although he finished the round and indeed played the fourth round as well. He firmly stated his dislike for The Old Course

According to this (this is Wikipedia so not stating it's fact) he didn't actually quit.  He finished the round and played the fourth as well.  What does this have to do with Tiger's wd?  Absolutely nothing I'd say.  Tiger was definitely hurt, in the past he may have played through it, but that may also be the reason Tiger is now at the point that he is.  I'll give Tiger the benefit of the doubt and say that if he believed it was better for him to stop before further injury, than he knows better than I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop

I've thought about this a lot.  I don't see how you can look at the WD without seeing that "I couldn't win" factored into his decision to quit.  I also can't believe that is okay, given what our sport is about.  Bobby Jones quit in the middle of his first Open Championship.  Most folks agree that was a (if not THE) low point in his career. Golfers and Sportsmen don't quit in the middle of a round just because they can't win. I'm willing to reconsider this conclusion, but I'll need to be convinced.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Am I the only one who thinks Tiger's WD is unsportsmanlike?  If I am, I'll re-think my position.  But here's what we know--

--Tiger's achilles is part of what kept him out of most of the 2010 season.

--Tiger felt the tightness during his warm-up during the a.m., and it didn't go away during his warm-up session.

--Tiger shot 62 last Sunday, and his ballstriking has been really good for a few weeks.

--Tiger withdrew when he was +3 or +4 through 11.

--By his own public statement, Tiger wasn't going to have his achilles checked out immediately after the WD.  He was going to get it looked at "sometime early next week."

My Conclusion:  Tiger felt the pain, but thought he could play through it when he had a chance to win.  He made the decision to quit only after it was apparent that he could not win.

Before knee-jerk reacting to this and saying horrible things about my parents, consider this:  Do you think Tiger would have quit if he were 3 shots back?

Is this not unsportsmanlike?  In our game, is it okay to allow "well, I can' win now" to be a factor in deciding whether it's okay to quit?

Critiques to this conclusion:

1. Tiger has a big fat well-paid doctor.  He called the doctor, who told him to elevate, ice, avoid, and see him in a few days when he could better evaluate whether it was a flare-up or a re-injury.  That's not "getting it checked out" in Tiger's mind.  Therefore, we can't conclude that Tiger's injury is minor just because he said "I'll be getting it checked out later this week."

--Counterpoint to 1:  why didn't Tiger just say that?  How hard is it to say:  "I spoke with my Doctor, he told me that he would be able to tell better in a few days whether this was just a painful flare-up or a re-injury..." if that's what really happened?

2. He was realistically out of contention late in the back nine, but played 3 or 4 more holes.  So he didn't quit "when it was apparent he couldn't win."

--Counterpoint to 2:  Do you think he would have quit on 12 if he was 2 or 3 behind the leader?  If you think he would have kept playing, then it should be apparent to you that the fact that he couldn't win factored into quitting.

3. Tiger couldn't have realistically thought that he could win when he teed it up.

--Counterpoint to 3:  That statement goes against everything Tiger stands for, and his 62 last Sunday tends to undercut this assumption.

4. Tiger's injury was getting worse throughout the day.

--Counterpoint to 4:  I'm not sure what point this makes.  Tiger was still walking.  He drove home.  He's played in FAR WORSE pain when he was in contention.  And, again:  would he have quit if he was still in contention?

5. Tiger's achilles/knee has kept him out of part of two seasons in the last 4 years.  A re-injury could cost him another season, millions of dollars (who cares), Jack's record, Ryder Cup, etc.

--Counterpoint to 5:  Then he should have never teed it up Sunday.  He should have walked from the range to the press tent and explained the situation.  If Doral is just a little warm-up on his quest for Majors glory, then how can he justify teeing it up on Sunday at all it if it risks the entire rest of his career?  (The only way is if he wins the tournament, ergo, he quit after it was clear that he couldn't win.)

I've thought about this a lot.  I don't see how you can look at the WD without seeing that "I couldn't win" factored into his decision to quit.  I also can't believe that is okay, given what our sport is about.  Bobby Jones quit in the middle of his first Open Championship.  Most folks agree that was a (if not THE) low point in his career.  Golfers and Sportsmen don't quit in the middle of a round just because they can't win.  I'm willing to reconsider this conclusion, but I'll need to be convinced.

I think it started off at 4 leading to the point where he is thinking about the points in 5. Does he quit if he is in contention probably not, but surely he is not in contention because of the injury?

WDing is a terrible thing to do to your playing partner, but if you think an injury has detiriorated to the point where you are doing serious damage then he is right to get out of there.

Wouldn't be an issue with any other golfer. Infact iirc didn't the whole of the media go ape with Rory for not WDing from the PGA?

Yes we expect him to speak to the media. That Tiger didn't shouldn't be a huge surprise. He has a right to the privacy of his own medical info though.