Hitting out of hard "sand"

[MacGregor9]

There's a cheap 9-hole course that we usually go to because its closer and so much cheaper than the other four 18-hole courses. The downside is it's not the best kept course. The greens are nice, but that's about it. My question is about the sand. It's not like normal sand, that is soft. It is on the harder side, and sometimes just the top layer looks like sand. It sort of reminds me of sandbox sand, that has moist sand/dirt under the top layer.

Any tips for hitting out of these? Whenever I try to hit it out like normal sand, the ball goes flying.

[Paradox]

If I can get away with it i.e. the lip isn't terribly high or I'm far enough away from it that I can get over it....I'll try to pick the ball clean like a chip shot..just brushing the top of the sand.

If I can't do that, I'll just open the face up more and still try to just brush the top of the sand under the ball.

I think the biggest key is to not hit behind the ball like you would do on a stock bunker shot.

[boogielicious]

+1 on the chip method.  You should be able to tell by your feet if the sand is going to give.  If it is really hard packed, even a bump and run will work.  I even had a friend putt out once when there was no lip.  Be creative like Seve!

[GaijinGolfer]

If its hard-packed sand, I just treat it like a normal pitch from the fairway.  Open up the stance a bit, play it in the middle of my stance and take a half swing.  The tip to treat it like a chip is interesting.  I may need to try that sometime.

[mdl]

Agree on treating it like a chip from a hardpan lie.  I'll play it with my low bounce 60˚, back in the stance, and pick it clean.  Also agree that with a high lip you're just kind of f-ed, and play it with an open face and try to pick it as clean as possible that way.

[EverythingGolf]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

+1 on the chip method.  You should be able to tell by your feet if the sand is going to give.  If it is really hard packed, even a bump and run will work.  I even had a friend putt out once when there was no lip.  Be creative like Seve!

That is fantastic, bunker putt...lol

[Zeph]

I hit it like a bunker shot. Might take a little less sand or even use the leading edge. Perhaps a club with less bounce. If the sand is pretty hard you may have to hit it harder to really get the club into the sand. Practice makes perfect. You'll have to adapt to different types of sand. You can hit a normal bunker shot out of any type of sand as long as it's not clay...

[Precis1on]

I've always played it like any other bunker shot. If the top layer is soft, the club will still dig properly under it. As long as I strike it like I do any other sand shot, I'm confident that it'll get out of there and onto the green. If I try to get creative with it (sometimes I'll just drop a ball and try it out), I sometimes will end up with bad results.

Hitting out of completely wet sand is another story of course, but my swing action is the same. Get under it and imaging carrying that wet slop of mud out of the sand trap.

[Tomboys]

It really depends on how much soft sand you have.  I'm pretty sure it's legal to use your feet to "test" how much depth there is on the softer sand.  When I encounter this situation, if there's a reasonable amount of sand, then I play a normal sand shot.  However, I make a few changes to my "stock" sand shot.  I don't open the clubface as much--to take out some of the bounce, and I swing a little bit less.  If I find there's very little soft sand, then I play a pitch shot.

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by MacGregor9

There's a cheap 9-hole course that we usually go to because its closer and so much cheaper than the other four 18-hole courses. The downside is it's not the best kept course. The greens are nice, but that's about it. My question is about the sand. It's not like normal sand, that is soft. It is on the harder side, and sometimes just the top layer looks like sand. It sort of reminds me of sandbox sand, that has moist sand/dirt under the top layer.

Any tips for hitting out of these? Whenever I try to hit it out like normal sand, the ball goes flying.

Just use the bounce and land the club on the sole and not the leading edge. That should help.

[Paradox]

trying to use the bounce on really hard sand is a great way to blade the shot and leave it in the bunker or fly it well over the green.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Paradox

trying to use the bounce on really hard sand is a great way to blade the shot and leave it in the bunker or fly it well over the green.

I disagree, but who knows what he actually means by "hard sand." If it's still sand at all you can force the club down. Of course, you'll want to hit closer to the ball because there's only so long you can make the club go down, too.

I can use the bounce off hardpan (and taught a forum member to play the shots this way and he did awesome at it just yesterday).

[scv76]

OP..That sounds just like the 9 hole course in Valencia...only using the term sand is a stretch because out here it is closer to plain old dirt! (most of the time wet)

Only way I have been able to play out of them is a chip type shot

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by iacas

I disagree, but who knows what he actually means by "hard sand." If it's still sand at all you can force the club down. Of course, you'll want to hit closer to the ball because there's only so long you can make the club go down, too.

I can use the bounce off hardpan (and taught a forum member to play the shots this way and he did awesome at it just yesterday).

you disagree that its easy to end up blading the ball by using bounce on hard sand(what I'm picturing in my mind is that there really is only a dusting of sand over dirt...aka no sand to scoop through.

Its possible to hit a shot with bounce from the hardest of lies but the precision needed isn't something most amateurs have enough of to do it consistently.  Why not play the safer, easier shot?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Paradox

you disagree that its easy to end up blading the ball by using bounce on hard sand(what I'm picturing in my mind is that there really is only a dusting of sand over dirt...aka no sand to scoop through.

Its possible to hit a shot with bounce from the hardest of lies but the precision needed isn't something most amateurs have enough of to do it consistently.  Why not play the safer, easier shot?

Because, I think as the guy I taught the shot to will attest, the safer, easier shot is to use the bounce. Minimally, but enough to prevent the possibility of digging in fat. You still get a margin of error - a little fat or a tiny bit thin and the ball still comes out really really well. The bounce "skids" it doesn't actually "bounce." AoA is small.

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by Paradox

you disagree that its easy to end up blading the ball by using bounce on hard sand(what I'm picturing in my mind is that there really is only a dusting of sand over dirt...aka no sand to scoop through.

Its possible to hit a shot with bounce from the hardest of lies but the precision needed isn't something most amateurs have enough of to do it consistently.  Why not play the safer, easier shot?

Im with Erik on this one.  The bounce is there for a reason.  Use it!  Youd be much more likely to have the club dig in on you if you treat it like a hardpan shot than you would to blade it.  Id rathar use the bounce and hit a higher shot than to try to chip it, run the risk of the club digging it, hitting it fat and having to worry about clearing the lip of the bunker.  IMO, treating it like a pitch from the fairway is a much safer, easier to predict shot.

[Paradox]

You're assuming that everyone is out there practicing hitting off hardpan lies using the bounce of their wedges.  I would also contend that the amount of bounce on the wedge would be a factor.  using a 6 degree bounce on hardpan isn't nearly as difficult as someone trying to do it with 14.  Again, I'm not talking about someone who goes out and practices this type of shot.  How often do most amateurs even practice the basic bunker shot?

I just know that from my own experience in hard bunkers, its easier to get my desired result by playing it more like a chip shot than trying to use bounce and slap it under the ball.  I'll leave it at that, I suppose and we can agree to disagree on whats easier.

[Zeph]

If you expect being able to hit perfectly off any type of sand without practicing, I wish you good luck. It takes practice to get used to different types of sand and how you hit it.