Tiger "tantrum" Woods

[dak4n6]

I hereby retract my earlier opinion of Tiger. After reading these posts, I now know that Tiger is modest, gentle, courteous, friendly, self effacing, peaceful, open to criticism, and apologetic when appropriate.

Meanwhile most other pros are agressive, angry, and contentious, and get away with all manner of bad behavior on and off the golf course.

I stand corrected.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I hereby retract my earlier opinion of Tiger. After reading these posts, I now know that Tiger is modest, gentle, courteous, friendly, self effacing, peaceful, open to criticism, and apologetic when appropriate.

Meanwhile most other pros are agressive, angry, and contentious, and get away with all manner of bad behavior on and off the golf course.

I stand corrected.

What about passive-aggressive?

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I hereby retract my earlier opinion of Tiger. After reading these posts, I now know that Tiger is modest, gentle, courteous, friendly, self effacing, peaceful, open to criticism, and apologetic when appropriate.

Meanwhile most other pros are agressive, angry, and contentious, and get away with all manner of bad behavior on and off the golf course.

I stand corrected.

Your post is ridiculous and immature.

The point some are trying to make is that other players have their demons just like Tiger does.  Tiger isn't the ONLY golfer who struggles with anger when he is unhappy with his performance.  It just so happens that we pay the most amount of attention to him which makes it appear that way.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

I hereby retract my earlier opinion of Tiger. After reading these posts, I now know that Tiger is modest, gentle, courteous, friendly, self effacing, peaceful, open to criticism, and apologetic when appropriate.

Meanwhile most other pros are agressive, angry, and contentious, and get away with all manner of bad behavior on and off the golf course.

I stand corrected.

Apology accepted.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

So you're blaming her? And rearranging history to suit your own purposes.

What makes you say she was volatile before she found out that he had slept with a dozen othe women?

You correctly criticise another person's definition of "thug", but then seem to criticise a woman who reacts when discovering that her husband has been cheating all along, as if he married a time bomb or as if he had reason to cheat because she was  "volatile" to start with, as if you'd know.

I am absolutely blaming her for her reaction.  Obviously I am not condoning cheating, nor blaming her for Tiger's numerous affairs.  That being said, it is a totally inappropriate and a ridiculous response to infidelity to bash two windows in on a car with a golf club, attack your spouse with that club, and then, when the club is taken away, beat him about the face, head and shoulders leaving bruises / marks.  Not to mention any self-defense claim is totally out the window because she chased him down.  So, yes, I do think she acted inappropriately having an illegitimate reaction to a legitimate grievance.

[brocks]

That being said, it is a totally inappropriate and a ridiculous response to infidelity to bash two windows in on a car with a golf club, attack your spouse with that club, and then, when the club is taken away, beat him about the face, head and shoulders leaving bruises / marks.  Not to mention any self-defense claim is totally out the window because she chased him down.

No, she was just standing her ground.

[geneinnc]

I grew up watching the BEST ever. Best player, best record, best class. You might hear the occasional "OH, Jack!" after an errant shot. You ever hear him ever curse?

Even before Woods flamed out, I thought he was a classless jerk. I tried to like him, because I love dominant players. The same old show never ends, so I gave up.

I also was brought up in a different era. I remember the first and only club I ever threw. I was 19 years old, and my dad's foot was up my butt as soon as the club left my hand, and there were NO soft spikes then.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by brocks

No, she was just standing her ground.

I see what you did there.

[jshots]

I could care less.

I don't care what happens if he isn't making birdies.

Simple as that.

[mtsalmela80]

id say her response was dead on. hell if someone i maaried banged a bunch of other guys, i might just have to kill her

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

I am absolutely blaming her for her reaction.  Obviously I am not condoning cheating, nor blaming her for Tiger's numerous affairs.  That being said, it is a totally inappropriate and a ridiculous response to infidelity to bash two windows in on a car with a golf club, attack your spouse with that club, and then, when the club is taken away, beat him about the face, head and shoulders leaving bruises / marks.  Not to mention any self-defense claim is totally out the window because she chased him down.  So, yes, I do think she acted inappropriately having an illegitimate reaction to a legitimate grievance.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

I am absolutely blaming her for her reaction.  Obviously I am not condoning cheating, nor blaming her for Tiger's numerous affairs.  That being said, it is a totally inappropriate and a ridiculous response to infidelity to bash two windows in on a car with a golf club, attack your spouse with that club, and then, when the club is taken away, beat him about the face, head and shoulders leaving bruises / marks.  Not to mention any self-defense claim is totally out the window because she chased him down.  So, yes, I do think she acted inappropriately having an illegitimate reaction to a legitimate grievance.

None of us have any real knowledge of what happened that day or any insight into the relationship between Tiger and Elin. I don't think it makes any sense to make comments like yours that have no knowledge of the facts or the context.

[Gioguy21]

[Chas]

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I must admit though, I do find it somewhat comical.  So much for that Buddhist inner peace that Tiger talked about.

Now that there is a funny, and true, remark.

My own view is that Tiger's behavior is not so different from some other pro golfers and that he is under much, much more pressure (internal and external) than any other golfer on tour, which exacerbated things at the Masters.  Hopes brought on by Bay Hill were sorely disappointed - that can't be easy to handle.  I know his behavior hasn't been so good all along but let's face it he plays with a different intensity than most which made him what he is.  I don't excuse his tantrums and he deserves criticism, as do all the others.  But if I were a pro golf I'm quite sure that I'd be pulling stuff like this occassionally - I just hope I'd be winning occassionally as well.

I have been a severe critic of TW over his personal issues but here we are talking about golf and his behavior on the course.  I have to admire his efforts to get back to the top, many would just have moved on to other things, no financial worries for him.  He still believes in his ability to break Jack's record and I personally want to see him give it his best.  Maybe he should take Butch's recent advice: get rid of any and all coaches for a while, go out on the range and work on FEEL FEEL FEEL.  Just hit high fades, low fades, high draws, low draws etc etc.  And try to do it "instinctively" - you already know how to do it all better than anyone else so don't be a "robot" and just get out there and get the feel back.

I actually feel sorry for Tiger now more than anything.  That he kicks the occassional iron or otherwise throws a wobblie (anglo language) is pretty immaterial to what is really going on out there.  When he gives interviews he seems to show a reasonably mature, calm and realistic attitude to his predicament.  But of course that doesn't really tell you much.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by MSchott

I'm sorry but this is so wrong I can't express how wrong it is. In a way, every golfer is a technician. Tiger has hit more creative shots in clutch situations than Bubba could ever dream of hitting. The list of great shots he has hit is pages long and his is due to his talent and creativity. Also, every golfer has good days and bad days. The golf swing is very hard to repeat . If it wasn't the most talented golfer would win every time. Also, look at golfers with great natural swings like Tom Purtzer. His swing was a thing of beauty. How many tournaments and majors did he win?

Agree. Tiger has hit shots in tight situations that almost noone else would attempt, and they were all about FEEL.  He needs to get that back, somehow.

When I see him hit a greenside bunker shot to a middle-distance pin lying on a downslope (very fast green) with water in back and get it fairly close with backspin, then I'll know he's got his feel back.  To others that would have been an unacceptably risky shot and it was all about feel (as well as perfect execution).

There are some fairly "robotic" players out there - Tiger never was one of those.

I speculate again but perhaps it is this loss of feel that most annoys and frustrates Tiger.  He is working long days on technical matters but getting the feel back requires more than that, does it not?  The more I think about it, the more Butch probably has it right.

[johnclayton1982]

Quote:

None of us have any real knowledge of what happened that day or any insight into the relationship between Tiger and Elin.

Right.  So why are people condemning him if this is correct?  Why are you assuming there might be some unknown fact out there that absolves Elin for her physical violence versus some unknown fact out there that might excuse Tiger's infidelity?  If you are going to play the "we don't know what happened" card, it goes both ways.

My point is that without Elin hitting him with a golf club, having the police called out and having his bruised up mug shot posted everywhere, this isn't a big deal - he just quietly gets divorced.  The only difference between Tiger Woods and any number of famous celebrities who have affairs and quietly get divorced is that Tiger got attacked with an iron.  I have sympathy for anyone who is assualted by their domestic partner.  There is no excuse for it.

Quote:

id say her response was dead on. hell if someone i maaried banged a bunch of other guys, i might just have to kill her

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

Right.  So why are people condemning him if this is correct?  Why are you assuming there might be some unknown fact out there that absolves Elin for her physical violence versus some unknown fact out there that might excuse Tiger's infidelity?  If you are going to play the "we don't know what happened" card, it goes both ways.

My point is that without Elin hitting him with a golf club, having the police called out and having his bruised up mug shot posted everywhere, this isn't a big deal - he just quietly gets divorced.  The only difference between Tiger Woods and any number of famous celebrities who have affairs and quietly get divorced is that Tiger got attacked with an iron.  I have sympathy for anyone who is assualted by their domestic partner.  There is no excuse for it.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Both Tiger and Elin had to deal with the fact that they put themselves in these situations. The created their own karma and then had to live with the causes. I'm not defending one or the other but I'm sorry but there is no excuse for serial infidelity. If there is a problem in a marriage it's up to the partners to work it out as amiably as possible. In this case if Elin attacked his car and Tiger, she was wrong and if Tiger did what we think he was wrong as well. But we don't know what they know so we shouldn't make any judgements.

[zeg]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that violent physical abuse is less OK than infidelity.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

Right.  So why are people condemning him if this is correct?  Why are you assuming there might be some unknown fact out there that absolves Elin for her physical violence versus some unknown fact out there that might excuse Tiger's infidelity?  If you are going to play the "we don't know what happened" card, it goes both ways.

My point is that without Elin hitting him with a golf club, having the police called out and having his bruised up mug shot posted everywhere, this isn't a big deal - he just quietly gets divorced.  The only difference between Tiger Woods and any number of famous celebrities who have affairs and quietly get divorced is that Tiger got attacked with an iron.  I have sympathy for anyone who is assualted by their domestic partner.  There is no excuse for it.

There are two parties to an assault, just like there are two parties to a sexual encounter.

In the case of the sexual encounters, all "parties" have admitted that it happened.  Dozens of women have come forward (to collect their twelve seconds of fame), and Tiger has publicly acknowledged the affairs and apologized.  In the case of the alleged assault with a golf club, the only two people involved have both denied that it happened, and provided alternative explanations for how Tiger was injured and why Elin was bashing out the windows with a golf club.

This is not a case where an "unknown fact" might "absolve Elin"--it's the "unknown fact" which might implicate her.  You are speculating that you know what happened that night, but in reality she remains absolved in the absence of evidence.  (I'm assuming that you're not an Florida Police Detective or Prosecutor and have some secret information, but that's probably a safe assumption.)

I'm not saying that Elin didn't attack Tiger, but we certainly don't know for sure what happened on Thanksgiving night 2009.  That's a very, very different state of evidence from Tiger's affairs, which have been publicly acknowledged.

And finally, let's pretend that, on that November night, Elin had simply confronted Tiger about the affairs, confirmed her suspicions, and then boarded a flight back to Sweden, never to return again.  Tiger still would not have been able to "quietly get divorced."  The story was simply too salacious, and his public figure was too big and clean.  Multiple club promoters, call girls, porn stars, and pancake house waitresses--a virtual avalanche of ****s--collapsed on Tiger for the six month period following Thanksgiving and the tabloid story which precipitated the confrontation.  There is no way Tiger would have quietly sidestepped this sideshow.