Tiger "tantrum" Woods

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by k-troop

In the case of the alleged assault with a golf club, the only two people involved have both denied that it happened, and provided alternative explanations for how Tiger was injured and why Elin was bashing out the windows with a golf club.

She was probably trying to kill a fly on the window ;-)

Seriously though, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that if the roles were reversed, and Elin did something (infidelity or otherwise) that aroused Tiger's anger, and he allegedly physically attacked her or her car with his golf club, people would have called for his arrest.

Brandon

[Mr3Wiggle]

If my wife caught me pulling the crap that Tiger was, I'd consider myself lucky if I only took a few 9 irons upside the head.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

She was probably trying to kill a fly on the window ;-)

Seriously though, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that if the roles were reversed, and Elin did something (infidelity or otherwise) that aroused Tiger's anger, and he allegedly physically attacked her or her car with his golf club, people would have called for his arrest.

Brandon

That may be true.  However, justice should not be held hostage to the lynch mob, nor should reason.

Let's assume that what you said had happened.  Lets further assume that afterwards the following facts unfold:

---------------

Tiger and Elin's version of events.  Tiger got a call from a tabloid journalist, warning him that they were about to publish crushing evidence that Elin was engaged in multiple affairs.  Tiger confronted Elin.  She was groggy and disoriented because she had taken a sleeping pill.  Rather than have a heated discussion which might escalate into a fight, she decided to leave the house.  In her drugged and emotional state, she crashed her car into a fire hydrant and hit her head on the steering wheel, rendering her temporarily unconscious.  Tiger responded, and tried to get her out of the vehicle, but it was locked.  He ran into the garage and grabbed the first thing he saw:  a Nike VRPro 9-iron.  He bashed out the rear window, trying to gain access to the car so that he could unlock the doors and get her out.  Both Tiger and Elin deny and are shocked by allegations of violent assault.  "He's an extremely peaceful, gentle, loving husband", Elin said.  "He would never do anything like that."

Neither Tiger nor Elin have any history of DV.  They both want to be left alone so that they can work on their marriage.  Elin's injuries were superficial and healed within a few days.

---------------

On those facts, Tiger would not be arrested.  He would not be charged.  And the screaming masses would have no real basis on which to presume him guilty.

[newtogolf]

Tiger and Elin aren't and won't be the first or last that lied to police to prevent someone from going to jail.  Battered wives defend and lie to protect their abusive husbands for numerous reasons.  I'm sure Tiger felt horrible that his actions caused her such distress and caused her to have an emotional breakdown that resulted in his injuries.  No man would send his wife and mother of his children to jail given the circumstances.  We'll probably never know what really happened that night, but it could have all been handled better.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by k-troop

On those facts, Tiger would not be arrested.  He would not be charged.  And the screaming masses would have no real basis on which to presume him guilty.

Full disclosure: I didn't read your entire post.  Mostly because I agree with this final sentence and what I assume your point was illustrating.  I was simply illustrating how currently there is a minority viewpoint (1 person here) who is being critical of Elin.  My own speculation/opinion is that, were the roles reversed, the majority viewpoint (on an internet forum)--or at least a very vocal and significant number of people--would have been extremely critical of Tiger.

I'm not even suggesting that the ENTIRE reason would be because people hate Tiger, although that would be part of it.  There is also a male-female double-standard when it comes to domestic violence that naturally comes into play.

Brandon

[Chas]

Tiger and Elin aren't and won't be the first or last that lied to police to prevent someone from going to jail.  Battered wives defend and lie to protect their abusive husbands for numerous reasons.  I'm sure Tiger felt horrible that his actions caused her such distress and caused her to have an emotional breakdown that resulted in his injuries.  No man would send his wife and mother of his children to jail given the circumstances.  We'll probably never know what really happened that night, but it could have all been handled better.

What evidence do you have that either of them lied to the cops? It would have served you better to have written, "Elin wouldn't have been the first ......". Of course she wouldn't, so what?

[johnclayton1982]

My point is not that Tiger deserves to be absolved for his moral failings because he was attacked with a golf club.  My point is two-fold:

1.  Relating back to the original post, had Tiger not been attacked physically, I don't think we get posts about how he threw a club at Augusta.  Did anyone see Matt Every throw his club after he hit it over the green yesterday? (I think on 17).  It was WAY worse than Tiger's - he threw it straight up, it landed about ten yards away, and then he just stared at it.  Where are the "ban Every from the Valero Open" threads or "I hate Matt Every he makes me sick" threads ?  I think without the physical violence, tiger's beat up face photo, the story doesn't get 24 news coverage, etc... and is a much less big deal.  I think its wrong to penalize Tiger for success - that is, to hold him to a higher standard because he's awesome at golf.  The origin of this thread was silly, and without Elin attacking him, I don't think it exists.  I mean, really, Tiger "tantrum" Woods?  Give me a break.  Totally unfair.

2.  I have sympathy for Tiger.  I don't believe that you "get what you deserve" if you cheat on a spouse.  Its like giving someone 20 years in jail for stealing a Snickers bar.  Sure, you can say "Don't steal and you'll have nothing to worry about; he only has  himself to blame" - and, I guess, thats true.  But you don't invite unlimited consequences for a bad act, and I don't think physical violence is ever justified unless someone is in fear of imminent harm.

3.  I think Tiger has had his place in the history of the game somewhat ruined due to Elin's physical assault.  Now, yes, you can argue he was the cause of his own demise and sure, thats true, to a certain extent.  But I think if Elin acts reasonably in the situation, hires an attorney, and they get divorced in the exact same way without the car crash and the beatings, it is much less of a story, and threads like this would not exist.  Now, sure, many will say since he cheated he deserves the fallout, but I disagree with that, and I feel badly for him for both the fact that someone he loved physically assaulted him (IMO, there is NO excuse for this) and that it blew up into a much bigger deal than simply cheating on your spouse as a public figure should be.  For that, I feel badly for Tiger.

[newtogolf]

I guess I don't believe in fairy tales but you can...  I chose the words I did for a reason but thanks.

Originally Posted by Chas

What evidence do you have that either of them lied to the cops?

It would have served you better to have written, "Elin wouldn't have been the first ......". Of course she wouldn't, so what?

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

My point is not that Tiger deserves to be absolved for his moral failings because he was attacked with a golf club.  My point is two-fold:

1.  Relating back to the original post, had Tiger not been attacked physically, I don't think we get posts about how he threw a club at Augusta.  Did anyone see Matt Every throw his club after he hit it over the green yesterday? (I think on 17).  It was WAY worse than Tiger's - he threw it straight up, it landed about ten yards away, and then he just stared at it.  Where are the "ban Every from the Valero Open" threads or "I hate Matt Every he makes me sick" threads ?  I think without the physical violence, tiger's beat up face photo, the story doesn't get 24 news coverage, etc... and is a much less big deal.  I think its wrong to penalize Tiger for success - that is, to hold him to a higher standard because he's awesome at golf.  The origin of this thread was silly, and without Elin attacking him, I don't think it exists.  I mean, really, Tiger "tantrum" Woods?  Give me a break.  Totally unfair.

2.  I have sympathy for Tiger.  I don't believe that you "get what you deserve" if you cheat on a spouse.  Its like giving someone 20 years in jail for stealing a Snickers bar.  Sure, you can say "Don't steal and you'll have nothing to worry about; he only has  himself to blame" - and, I guess, thats true.  But you don't invite unlimited consequences for a bad act, and I don't think physical violence is ever justified unless someone is in fear of imminent harm.

3.  I think Tiger has had his place in the history of the game somewhat ruined due to Elin's physical assault.  Now, yes, you can argue he was the cause of his own demise and sure, thats true, to a certain extent.  But I think if Elin acts reasonably in the situation, hires an attorney, and they get divorced in the exact same way without the car crash and the beatings, it is much less of a story, and threads like this would not exist.  Now, sure, many will say since he cheated he deserves the fallout, but I disagree with that, and I feel badly for him for both the fact that someone he loved physically assaulted him (IMO, there is NO excuse for this) and that it blew up into a much bigger deal than simply cheating on your spouse as a public figure should be.  For that, I feel badly for Tiger.

I think the vast majority of people don't think twice about Elin attacking Tiger if that's what happened. The stories of Tiger's serial infidelity are why people see him in a negative light. I'm not one of those at least as far as bashing him over a minor temper issue on the golf course. I personally think people are disappointed in Woods as he ruined a great reputation and dirtied his stellar career. You are in the tiniest minority blaming Elin.

[Chas]

Newtogolf: I repeat, what is your evidence? I can speculate in the absence of data as well but I find it rather pointless. For what reason, exactly, did you choose those words in that post? I'm curious, is all. Mschott: well said.

[newtogolf]

There were enough sources to the story that claimed Tigers truck was damaged in areas that were not near the area that hit the fire hydrant.  He also claimed to have thought he was stopped when he hit the fire hydrant.  I don't know about you, but I know the difference between being stopped or rolling and if he was rolling it's not likely he sustained injuries from the impact.   It may be pointless speculation, but it's pretty obvious to me that it's all a cover up.

Originally Posted by Chas

Newtogolf: I repeat, what is your evidence? I can speculate in the absence of data as well but I find it rather pointless.

For what reason, exactly, did you choose those words in that post? I'm curious, is all.

[Chas]

OK, fair enough. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if she went for him in some way but like I say I don't see any real evidence given the collision - different matter if he'd stopped by hitting the brakes. Certainly the motivation was there to cover it up but that's not enough for me. Unlike another poster on this thread, I consider this aspect to be of no real significance in the debate so I still say, "so what?" :). TW disgraced himself royally and gets no sympathy from me if he finds his bed uncomfortable, metaphorically speaking.

[newtogolf]

I agree that he deserves an uncomfortable bed but no one deserves to be physically attacked (male or female) for infidelity.   He's paid quite a bit, lost his kids, bunch of endorsement money, friends, a caddie, and who knows how much hush money he's paid to others that threatened to come forward.   I'm only a fan of his golf skills not how he runs his personal life.

Originally Posted by Chas

OK, fair enough. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if she went for him in some way but like I say I don't see any real evidence given the collision - different matter if he'd stopped by hitting the brakes.

Unlike another poster here I consider this aspect to be of no real significance in the debate so I still say, "so what?" :). TW disgraced himself royally and gets no sympathy from me if he finds his bed uncomfortable, metaphorically speaking.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I agree that he deserves an uncomfortable bed but no one deserves to be physically attacked (male or female) for infidelity.

Agree entirely.  Does anything I've posted suggest otherwise to you?  If so, please explain why.

[newtogolf]

Your post didn't suggest it, but you left it out there without denouncing it so I was clarifying my position.

Originally Posted by Chas

Agree entirely.  Does anything I've posted suggest otherwise to you?  If so, please explain why.

[Chas]

OK then. At any rate it's johnclayton in #151 that I disagree with in the matter of TW's moral failings and their consequences.  As to his "tantrums" on the course, I consider them part-and-parcel of Tiger's intensity and high expectations of himself - they are unfortunate but very understandable and of little consequence imo.  Look at McEnroe, one of the tennis greats imo but one whose behavior on court was far, far worse than Tiger has ever been on the track.  And some tennis players even use "tantrums" to influence negatively the play of their opponents by setting an overly aggressive tone and intimidating line judges.  This sort of thing doesn't happen in golf, and if they did I wouldn't expect TW to be a transgressor.  He respects the game too much, despite his will to win. Just mo.