Can custom fitting hurt your game?

[chicagogolf]

I think it can.

Example: If your driver swing speed is 95 and you get fitted into an R shaft but you want to hit the ball longer, how is an R shaft gonna help you? you might add 5 to 10 yards because you are hitting it straighter but the only way to really hit the ball longer is to increase your swing speed. If you want to swing the club 110 mph, you should play a shaft designed for 110 and force yourself to get there.

i think custom fitting can help if you are 2 handicap trying to get to a 0 or +1. But if you are a 15 to 20 handicap trying to get in the single digits, my personal opinion is that custom fitting is just ingraining your bad swing habits. if you want to swing like ben hogan, but you currently have an upright swing, playing super upright clubs isn't going to help you. You have to get flatter clubs and force yourself into a better impact position. That's why I believe static fitting works best for high handicappers.

[Mr3Wiggle]

I think in general, changing your game/swing to fit your clubs does way more harm than changing your clubs to fit your swing/game.  A lot of bad habits are picked up trying to hit clubs that are too stiff or have too little loft.

[MisterE]

I would agree, each swing is different, working on some things to improve will maybe change your needs, but fitting your clubs to you is better than trying to fit your game to your clubs.  Most experts will say that custom fitting benefits high handicap players even more than low handicap anyway because high handicap players are more consistent and can more likely hit any club better.

[x129]

It is more likely you will ingrain some bad habits when swing your xstiff shaft with a regular swing speed which will slow down your progression.  Your choice is either to buy a shaft that fits your current swing or get a faster swing then buy a shaft.  And obviously this is ignoring things like loft and length which might also change a bit if you start swinging 20% faster. If money is an issue then you can get cheap clubs (i.e. 2 year old models ) until your swing finalizes.

A bad fitting (i.e. one that doesn't match your swing) will hurt you. Doesn't matter the handicap.

Originally Posted by chicagogolf

I think it can.

Example: If your driver swing speed is 95 and you get fitted into an R shaft but you want to hit the ball longer, how is an R shaft gonna help you? you might add 5 to 10 yards because you are hitting it straighter but the only way to really hit the ball longer is to increase your swing speed. If you want to swing the club 110 mph, you should play a shaft designed for 110 and force yourself to get there.

i think custom fitting can help if you are 2 handicap trying to get to a 0 or +1. But if you are a 15 to 20 handicap trying to get in the single digits, my personal opinion is that custom fitting is just ingraining your bad swing habits. if you want to swing like ben hogan, but you currently have an upright swing, playing super upright clubs isn't going to help you. You have to get flatter clubs and force yourself into a better impact position. That's why I believe static fitting works best for high handicappers.

[MisterE]

A bad fitting would hurt, yes.  Sounds like you had a bad experience, don't let that sour you on fitting all together.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by chicagogolf

I think it can.

...

i think custom fitting can help if you are 2 handicap trying to get to a 0 or +1. But if you are a 15 to 20 handicap trying to get in the single digits, my personal opinion is that custom fitting is just ingraining your bad swing habits. ...

You are singing my song! Getting dynamically fit (fitting based on swing a club) with a swing that has flaws will get you fit for that flawed swing. If you hope to improve your swing, your new clubs will hurt that progress. If you are an old guy who is not trying to change but maximize the swing you have today, go for it. You won't get from 20 to single digits but it can help you some.

If you hope to improve your swing...

Static fitting (based on your body size measurements) to the swing YOU WANT is the way to go. This is most important for length and lie. Go ahead and get shafts that match your current swing speed and tempo if you think that part of your game will remain about the same. You must have the correct lie and length for the swing you want if you are ever going to have that swing.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

I think in general, changing your game/swing to fit your clubs does way more harm than changing your clubs to fit your swing/game.  A lot of bad habits are picked up trying to hit clubs that are too stiff or have too little loft.

Here is a solution:

My club guy always asks people about their game and what their intentions are - lessons, weight lifting, swing speed, exercise, etc., and then tells them where they fit now, and whether they want some cushion... he also does a ball fitting.

Custom fitting is bad if you use poor fitters or you don't give the fitter sufficient information.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

I think in general, changing your game/swing to fit your clubs does way more harm than changing your clubs to fit your swing/game.  A lot of bad habits are picked up trying to hit clubs that are too stiff or have too little loft.

I'll give you too stiff or too little loft is never a really good idea. But you have to join those of us (too few) who preach that the length and lie must match the swing you are working toward and not the one you have today. Otherwise, every time you change from your current swing toward the one you want, the miss-fitting clubs will suck you back to your old ways in order to make the ball go straighter. A guy who plans to radically change his swing -- and go from a 15 to a 9 handicap -- should not get the lie his current (over the top?) swing dictates.

[xmanhockey7]

FIrst off shaft left is not solely based on how much club head speed you create. There are other factors that come into play. Getting fitted for YOUR swing is so vital I don't even know where to begin. The other day I went to a local club repair/fitting specialist. Guy does everything at his house and he knows what he's doing. Took at look at my Ping irons and concluded that 1. The irons were too long for me 2. Because they were too long for me the lie angle was way off. Since I'm getting new irons soon he and I decided the best course of action was to bend the heck out of 'em.

Now I'd been hitting my irons very poorly especially my 4 iron. After he bent my clubs to fit my swing I went to the driving range and believe it or not I was hitting my 4 iron long and straight. All year I thought it was me just having trouble hitting that loft. Nope! It was the fact the club was not properly fit for my swing. He also bent my putter and I have to say that made a HUGE difference in my putting. I was already a good putter but after he did that I saw a dramatic increase in the number of solid putts I was hitting.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

I'll give you too stiff or too little loft is never a really good idea. But you have to join those of us (too few) who preach that the length and lie must match the swing you are working toward and not the one you have today. Otherwise, every time you change from your current swing toward the one you want, the miss-fitting clubs will suck you back to your old ways in order to make the ball go straighter. A guy who plans to radically change his swing -- and go from a 15 to a 9 handicap -- should not get the lie his current (over the top?) swing dictates.

I agree on the length and lie.  I also see your point about someone being fit with upright clubs to compensate for a slice.  Especially if they are someone that plans on spending a lot of time on their game and eliminating that slice.  What's funny is I've been a 2 degree flat lie with standard length since I was a teenager.  Also haven't needed a shaft flex change (irons) since I was 18.  It always amazes me that even with swing changes (which I perceived to be dramatic) my specs seem to remain unchanged.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by xmanhockey7

FIrst off shaft left is not solely based on how much club head speed you create. There are other factors that come into play. Getting fitted for YOUR swing is so vital I don't even know where to begin. The other day I went to a local club repair/fitting specialist. Guy does everything at his house and he knows what he's doing. Took at look at my Ping irons and concluded that 1. The irons were too long for me 2. Because they were too long for me the lie angle was way off. Since I'm getting new irons soon he and I decided the best course of action was to bend the heck out of 'em.

Now I'd been hitting my irons very poorly especially my 4 iron. After he bent my clubs to fit my swing I went to the driving range and believe it or not I was hitting my 4 iron long and straight. All year I thought it was me just having trouble hitting that loft. Nope! It was the fact the club was not properly fit for my swing. He also bent my putter and I have to say that made a HUGE difference in my putting. I was already a good putter but after he did that I saw a dramatic increase in the number of solid putts I was hitting.

Where were you hitting the ball with that 4 iron prior to getting the lie fixed?  Were you pulling it?  I think I have clubs too short for me (or too flat, not sure) and it seems like my well struck shots tend more towards the push.  Just curious how it compares.

[chicagogolf]

just from my personal experience growing up and playing golf. in high school, I was 5'11 and fitted into 1/2" over and 3 degrees upright. really, at that age you don't know any better, but looking back, there was an obvious swing flaw there that should have been corrected.

[xmanhockey7]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Where were you hitting the ball with that 4 iron prior to getting the lie fixed?  Were you pulling it?  I think I have clubs too short for me (or too flat, not sure) and it seems like my well struck shots tend more towards the push.  Just curious how it compares.

If a club is too flat it will cause the ball to go to the right. If the club is too upright it will cause the ball to go to the left. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work. I found that the ball actually tended to be weak and to the right. Even when it was straight it was weak though. I'd highly recommend looking into getting your clubs fitted even if that means having the lie angle adjusted. It's well worth it I found that out first hand.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by xmanhockey7

If a club is too flat it will cause the ball to go to the right. If the club is too upright it will cause the ball to go to the left. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work. I found that the ball actually tended to be weak and to the right. Even when it was straight it was weak though. I'd highly recommend looking into getting your clubs fitted even if that means having the lie angle adjusted. It's well worth it I found that out first hand.

That is what I thought and why I have diagnosed that my clubs are too flat for my current swing.  I can also tell from my divots being deeper at the toe.  But I have recently seen my swing on video for the first time and I know I swing pretty upright, so I appreciate the dilemma posed by the OP to start this thread.  I can go now and get fitted for this swing with upright clubs, but will that then be a hindrance towards improving my swing plane?  Then again, if I express to the fitter that I am trying to flatten out my swing plane, he could fit me to where I need to be, not where I am now.  I am guessing that longer clubs, not more upright clubs, might be the answer for me.

However, it seems like everything else you get from a dynamic fitting is valuable to all skill levels - shaft type, shaft flex, ball trajectory, etc. - so I think Mr. Desmond's solution is the right one.

[WUTiger]

First of all, I think we're having trouble with definitions.

The term custom fitting doesn't have much meaning. Fittings - seeing if a particular club fits you - involves some custom analysis rather than buying a club off the rack and hoping it works.

Static fitting involves checking out a set of clubs to see if the shafts are proper length, and the lie proper, for your body build and stance. Lie angle - on the impact board or with sole tape - seems to be a fairly stable measure for most golfers. Then, are the grips too big or too thin for your hands?

Dynamic fitting , at its most intense, involves a daylong computer analysis of your swing, with attempts to find which irons, wedges, drivers, etc., would work best for your swing.

Then you have the gray area between the two, when you bring in a launch monitor for some data, but don't attempt to outfit the entire golf bag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagogolf

I think it can.

Example: If your driver swing speed is 95 and you get fitted into an R shaft but you want to hit the ball longer, how is an R shaft gonna help you? you might add 5 to 10 yards because you are hitting it straighter but the only way to really hit the ball longer is to increase your swing speed. ...

.... But if you are a 15 to 20 handicap trying to get in the single digits, my personal opinion is that custom fitting is just ingraining your bad swing habits.

A second way to increase useful length is to have more center hits on your driver. Maybe trim the shaft a little. Lightweight shafts allow you to hit the ball longer, but do you want to be 250 yards out in the first cut, or 270 yards out and deep in the trees?

Your opinion is curious. I got on the launch monitor and found that I hit my irons more squarely if I had + 1/4" on my shaft length. Due to money constraints, I haven't made the move yet.

If shafts are too heavy, it hurts clubhead speed. If shafts are too light, it hurts control. Also, some people who have problems with over the top counterweight the butt end of the club. This encourages a better hand drop, helps them swing correctly. And, not everyone wants to play in the US Amateur. Some just want to be able to make a dozen usable shots in the local scramble.

I think you want to give some more thought to your opening post.

Originally Posted by MisterE

... Most experts will say that custom fitting benefits high handicap players even more than low handicap anyway because high handicap players are more consistent and can more likely hit any club better.

It can get them from blades to SGI irons, and maybe talk them into lighter shafts. But once you get fitted, improvement is based upon correcting operator error.

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Here is a solution:

My club guy always asks people about their game and what their intentions are - lessons, weight lifting, swing speed, exercise, etc., and then tells them where they fit now, and whether they want some cushion... he also does a ball fitting.

Custom fitting is bad if you use poor fitters or you don't give the fitter sufficient information.

Hope others pay attention to this. Especially the part about the fitter has to know what he or she is doing.

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

I'll give you too stiff or too little loft is never a really good idea. ...

Ya thinK!

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

... However, it seems like everything else you get from a dynamic fitting is valuable to all skill levels - shaft type, shaft flex, ball trajectory, etc. - so I think Mr. Desmond's solution is the right one.

I did a Sand Trap piece on Boxed Sets of Clubs for Beginners. Most teaching pros and club fitters I talked to said that static fitting is the way to go for beginners. When golfers are starting out, their swings are too variable and unstable to benefit from a dynamic fitting. A stable swing - flawed or superb - can benefit from a dynamic fitting.

[Mr. Desmond]

Yes, if you're a beginner without a swing, a static fitting is the beginning.

In an ideal world, a beginner would have a handful of clubs that are easy to get up in the air and as straight as possible. Once they learned the basics, they'd graduate to more clubs, and then to a dynamic fitting.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

I did a Sand Trap piece on Boxed Sets of Clubs for Beginners. Most teaching pros and club fitters I talked to said that static fitting is the way to go for beginners. When golfers are starting out, their swings are too variable and unstable to benefit from a dynamic fitting. A stable swing - flawed or superb - can benefit from a dynamic fitting.

Makes sense ... I can buy that.