Kornheiser: NFL to decline?

[BruceMGF]

Tony Kornheiser says that the recent publicity over long-term effects of head injuries could be setting the NFL on the road to decline - very much like what happened to boxing.

Michael Collins (not the Irish rebel, or the astronaut) disagrees:

http://www.rantsports.com/redzonetalk/2012/05/12/the-nfl-isnt-going-anywhere-despite-what-tony-kornheiser-says/

Methinks Mr. Collins doth protest too much.

First he says that Kornheiser "owes a great deal of his existence (and his paycheck) to the game of professional football".  Yeah, probably.  Why does that imply football will retain its popularity?  Or, for that matter, that other sports won't replace it in popularity and supply Kornheiser with continued employment?  Or maybe, just maybe, there really will be fewer jobs for the Kornheisers of the world.

"The NFL isn’t going anywhere anytime soon" says Collins.  Well, that's really not a disagreement.  Kornheiser is predicting a slow decline, not a sudden disappearance.

"Boxing didn’t do anything to protect their athletes, and find ways to make their sport safer."  Hmmm.  What about the whole transition from bare-knuckle to modern boxing (I know, that wasn't so recent)?  What was that about if not safety?  And mouthguards, the three-knockdown rule, etc.

Collins: "But as long as there is an option for guys to make six to seven figure salaries playing football as opposed to making a meager living in a nine-to-five job, the NFL is going to carry on."  There are other ways to make big money, many of them athletic.  And Kornheiser's point is that people are going to stop watching or sponsoring the sport in such big numbers, not that athletes won't want big money.

There was a time when the three biggest sports in the US were baseball, boxing and horse racing.

Baseball has held up the best, though it's not what it used to be.

Boxing used to be the biggest money sport - that is, the one who paid its top performers the most.  It still exists, of course, but how many people can name the heavyweight champ these days?  When it was Joe Louis or Muhammed Ali, everyone knew.

Horse racing?  The Triple Crown is still big news, but daily attendance at the local track is less than half what it was at its height.  Probably because it used to be the only way to gamble legally in most states.  Casino gambling was legal only in Nevada, and state lotteries didn't exist.  Sure, you could gamble illegally, but that was risky.  Those games were run by career criminals, thugs who would break your arm if you didn't pay your losses quickly, or won too much, or if they just didn't like your face.

So yeah, the NFL could decline.  And the head-injury news could be the reason.

[newtogolf]

The media was hunting for a story to tear down the NFL and it found one.  A few football players commit suicide and suddenly it's football is too violent.  Newspapers and bloggers are all jumping on the bandwagon, concussions cause suicide, blah blah blah.

Seau was a great football player, my heart goes out to him and his family, no one should should lose a loved one that way.  To jump the gun and blame football is irresponsible and covers up other potential causes.

Quick search of statistics shows 36,000 people die of suicide each year, how many of them are ex football players?   I have no doubt that multiple concussions can cause irreparable brain damage and could potentially lead someone to take their life, but ex-football players have numerous issues they have to deal with once out of the league;

• Chronic pain throughout their entire body as a result of years of pounding that often results drug addiction and depression.
• Loss of adrenaline rush and team camaraderie
• Financial losses - football players are notorious for living beyond their means and then filing bankruptcy losing everything they sacrificed their bodies for.
• Feeling of unimportance, most ex-football players that don't go into coaching often feel irrelevant in a society that is too quick to forget past stars and move on to new ones.
• Obesity, most football players never develop a body that is healthy for their post football years.  Making it even more difficult for them to live without pain

I'm all for exploring concussions, but lets address some of these other issues which IMO are just as likely to cause suicide and don't require destroying the most popular sport in America.

[Kapanda]

There was a CNN vid I saw, but I can't seem to find it now, where it showed the brains of retired football players, compared to normal brains, and to a boxer's brain.

The boxer's brain was completely messed up, with this so-called tau protein that accumulates after concussions. The football player's brain was significantly damaged too, though.

Knowing these things, as much as I absolutely adore the sport, unless the technology gets better, the NFL itself will likely regulate the sport into blandness. So I also fall on the side of it being likely on the decline.

[x129]

One of the articles pointed out that football players have a lower suicide rate than the general population. Football is likely to decline but I think that is more because once you reach the top there is no where to go but down.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

The media was hunting for a story to tear down the NFL and it found one.  A few football players commit suicide and suddenly it's football is too violent.  Newspapers and bloggers are all jumping on the bandwagon, concussions cause suicide, blah blah blah.

Seau was a great football player, my heart goes out to him and his family, no one should should lose a loved one that way.  To jump the gun and blame football is irresponsible and covers up other potential causes.

Quick search of statistics shows 36,000 people die of suicide each year, how many of them are ex football players?   I have no doubt that multiple concussions can cause irreparable brain damage and could potentially lead someone to take their life, but ex-football players have numerous issues they have to deal with once out of the league;

Chronic pain throughout their entire body as a result of years of pounding that often results drug addiction and depression.

Loss of adrenaline rush and team camaraderie

Financial losses - football players are notorious for living beyond their means and then filing bankruptcy losing everything they sacrificed their bodies for.

Feeling of unimportance, most ex-football players that don't go into coaching often feel irrelevant in a society that is too quick to forget past stars and move on to new ones.

Obesity, most football players never develop a body that is healthy for their post football years.  Making it even more difficult for them to live without pain

I'm all for exploring concussions, but lets address some of these other issues which IMO are just as likely to cause suicide and don't require destroying the most popular sport in America.

[newtogolf]

I'd read that as well, but I didn't want to have the thread focus only on the statistics I provided (current trend here at TST).  Since you mentioned it, the stats I saw indicated that at least 16 ex-NFL players per year would need to commit suicide just to reach the national average for male suicides in the United States.   They are not currently considered a high risk group.

Originally Posted by x129

One of the articles pointed out that football players have a lower suicide rate than the general population. Football is likely to decline but I think that is more because once you reach the top there is no where to go but down.

[Mr3Wiggle]

I believe, within my lifetime both NFL football and boxing will be outlawed.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

I believe, within my lifetime both NFL football and boxing will be outlawed.

Wow.  No way.

[jamo]

I think the NFL could decline, but it will be very, very slow, and we probably won't notice it until after it's already happened. It might not have anything to do with head injuries at all, though that could hurt football gradually starting at the youth level. [quote name="Mr3Wiggle" url="/t/57968/kornheiser-nfl-to-decline#post_711470"]I believe, within my lifetime both NFL football and boxing will be outlawed. [/quote] In what way? From a legal standpoint?

[Golfingdad]

I think if the NFL continues to ignore the concussion issues and not choose to be at the forefront of trying to combat them (namely new helmet technology) then I'd have to agree with everybody who says its on the decline.  During the season, I read the Gregg Easterbrooks 'TMQ' column on espn and he talks almost weekly about that very subject (It is a looooooooooooooong article, and he discusses a dozen different things, one of them frequently is helmets) and from that I have learned that the NFL is behind college and high school in helmet technology.  The NFL could take a big step forward by just requiring all players to use the newest, most concussion resistant helmets available.

Or they could get really creative and go the other way:  Ban helmets altogether or put the players back in leather.  Can't imagine you're gonna see a lot of 'leading with the head' penalties then.  (Of course that would be ridiculous and change the sport so drastically that its not football anymore)

One way or the other, big changes are going to have to be made, or else 3wiggle is going to be right.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Wow.  No way.

Time will tell.  Just a prediction.  The game is certainly getting more and more destructive to the human body.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by jamo

I think the NFL could decline, but it will be very, very slow, and we probably won't notice it until after it's already happened. It might not have anything to do with head injuries at all, though that could hurt football gradually starting at the youth level.

In what way? From a legal standpoint?

From a public health standpoint.  Boxing often involves 1 or more concussions per match.  We're just starting to discover the long-term effects these two sports have on the human body.

[Golfingdad]

One other relevant comment:  I played football in high school, and love watching college and the nfl (Go Fresno State, and Go Chargers) but I am going to do my best to discourage my kids from wanting to play football when they are old enough (I doubt I would go so far as to forbid them, but I don't know yet because its a long ways off)

But there are just too many other fun and competitive sports out there for them that are so much less dangerous.  Golf, tennis, baseball, basketball, hockey (yes, hockey), and so on.  I (and my wife) see no reason to encourage participation in something so violent when there are so many other options out there.

I could see that being a big reason for a slow decline.  Lack of interest or participation at a young age.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Time will tell.  Just a prediction.  The game is certainly getting more and more destructive to the human body.

There are thousands of things that are as destructive, or more, to the body, including other sports - they don't become illegal.  There is esentially no way that football can be "outlawed"....

[BruceMGF]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

The NFL could take a big step forward by just requiring all players to use the newest, most concussion resistant helmets available.

Or they could get really creative and go the other way:  Ban helmets altogether or put the players back in leather.  Can't imagine you're gonna see a lot of 'leading with the head' penalties then.  (Of course that would be ridiculous and change the sport so drastically that its not football anymore)

There's definitely something to the idea that helmets make players more likely to "lead with the head".  Similar arguments have fallen on deaf ears (of the sports establishment) for years but in the last few years there was a debate in women's lacrosse (theoretically non-contact, unlike men's lacrosse) on whether helmets should be required.  It was pointed out that helmets and padding in men's lacrosse, ice hockey, football, etc., had only made players more aggressive and, arguably, increased the rate of injury. (Of course, "protective" gear in general can be used as a weapon.  And it is.)

I never heard how it turned out.  Maybe they're still arguing.  At least the idea's getting a hearing.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

There are thousands of things that are as destructive, or more, to the body, including other sports - they don't become illegal.  There is esentially no way that football can be "outlawed"....

In my state it's illegal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.  Just saying...

[jamo]

There's definitely something to the idea that helmets make players more likely to "lead with the head".  Similar arguments have fallen on deaf ears (of the sports establishment) for years but in the last few years there was a debate in women's lacrosse (theoretically non-contact, unlike men's lacrosse) on whether helmets should be required.  It was pointed out that helmets and padding in men's lacrosse, ice hockey, football, etc., had only made players more aggressive and, arguably, increased the rate of injury. (Of course, "protective" gear in general can be used as a weapon.  And it is.) I never heard how it turned out.  Maybe they're still arguing.  At least the idea's getting a hearing.

From what I understand, it's different kinds of injuries. I heard an interview a while ago with (former?) higher-up from Riddell, that the newer helmets are better with concussions but slightly worse with skull fractures, while older helmets are better with skull fractures but worse with concussions.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by jamo

From what I understand, it's different kinds of injuries. I heard an interview a while ago with (former?) higher-up from Riddell, that the newer helmets are better with concussions but slightly worse with skull fractures, while older helmets are better with skull fractures but worse with concussions.

I wonder if the move away from natural turf surfaces has had any effect on the increase in concussions.  Perhaps making teams play on softer fields with longer grass would slow players down and provide softer landings.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

In my state it's illegal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.  Just saying...

And the equivalent to this (outlawing football)  would be outlawing motorcycle riding...