Slow Play on the PGA Tour, Tiger Shares His Opinion

[pw8iron]

If you can figure out a way to discriminate between the players in a pairing or threesome to determine who is causing slow play, then I would be all for assessing penalties, etc.  Perhaps some sort of electronic monitoring device that is controlled from a room off course or something by someone who doesn't even know what player is what.  Just given a number from the device and a standard as to when they spent too much time during a particular shot, et al.

I'll give you a specific example of what bothers me.  I watched Mickelson at #17 on Sunday I believe.  I pulled out my stopwatch and timed him from the moment he teed up the ball until he actually hit the shot, and it was 1 minute and 30 seconds.  NBC actually timed him a year or so ago at 17 and he spent over 2 minutes and 30 seconds previously at that tee box.  Yeah, I get it that the wind on #17 is always a factor, but geez dude, you know what club you are hitting, and it's not like you didn't know this tee shot was coming and what the distance was prior to starting your round.  I mean, it's one thing to debate a shot from the fairway, but from the tee box?  Pull the club, take a practice swing and fire away.

Just look at how Rickie Fowler does it.  He was playing with Ben Curtis on Sunday, and they got to #17 and Curtis had the honors.  Curtis went back and forth with his caddie, like Mickelson did, and several minutes later he finally hit his shot.  NBC hadn't even finished commenting on Curtis' shot when they went back to the tee box and Rickie Fowler was already in his backswing hitting away.

Both Fowler and McIlroy are two of the fastest players out there.  They should be the standard for everyone else to follow.  Also, am I the only one that was taught ready golf growing up?  If Player A has the honors and is going through his routine, I'm already at my ball, or near by it and have analyzed the shot while waiting for Player A to hit.  Once he hits there is nothing for me to discuss, because I already have my club and distance, and have visualized my target while waiting for my partner to hit.  Takes me about 15 seconds to address the ball and hit it.  Maybe I just don't see it, but I believe that most tour pros don't play ready golf.  Every player seems to think they are entitled to waste the time while their partner is hitting to do nothing.  And then when they have the honors then they start the preshot routine.  This is where they can save a ton of time, especially on Thursday and Fridays when they are in threesomes.  Player A gets his minute to go over the shot and club selection, but Player B and C should be doing it while Player A is doing theirs.  Sure, I get it that this isn't always possible when Player B is directly in front of Player A, but even then I can still be selecting a club, knowing what my distance is, even when I am not near my ball at the time.

Anyway, that's how I play ready golf.  Then again, I've never had anyone complain about me taking too long to hit a shot, ever.

[sean_miller]

During my few holes of golf this season I've practiced playing slower. I'm not quite up to a 90 minutes per 9 holes pace, but I'll get there. I'm getting tired of it always being someone else's turn when I play. We paid the same money yet it's only my turn for a few seconds every few minutes. Especially in league play - I take less time over the ball per 18 holes than one certain guy does in one hole. If anyone I know is reading this they know exactly who I'm talking about.

[bplewis24]

So, what exactly are the rules on the PGA tour and in college golf for pace of play?  When are players put on the clock?  Is it discretionary or is it a matter of fact?

Brandon

[x129]

Tiger used to be a slow player. Now he is about average due to the slow down. Now I don't know if this is 100% accurate but it is the best I can find

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/who-are-some-slowest-and-fastest-players-tour-were-naming-names#ixzz1OWhOSovx

Heck if he didn't stop every other shot for camera clicks, he might even be fast That being said I am guessing there are a lot of issues with this methodology where the sample size isn't big enough to eliminate odd events (that shot from the rough that takes 2 mins to figure out) and getting a trickey 8 footer versus a straight 3 foot putt.

Na is more agonizing than most players of the same speed because of the time he spends over the ball. You get ready for the action and then are left hanging compared to the guys that chat with the caddy for 45 seconds then hit the ball in 10s.

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Seems like Tiger is being a hypocrite.

[Chas]

Obviously TW is contradicting himself when suggests, "if you get a warning you get a penalty". In that case it wouldn't be a warning, it would be a penalty. The two are mutually exclusive concepts. It seems that Tiger needs a lesson in the language .... I share the sentiment tho'. A warning should be give first but the penalty on subsequent violation could be increased - to +1 stroke? That might have the desired effect.

[Bullitt5339]

While the slow play on the tour is annoying, I take Tiger's comments with a grain of salt.  He's not the one who should be speaking out against slow play.  Anyone remember at the Bridgestone in 2009 when him and Harrington were put on the clock?  Then he was fined for speaking out against the rules official that put him on the clock, even though they were clearly behind the pace of play even after J.B. Holmes held up play for a while waiting on a rules official right in a group in front of them?  Tiger has been on the clock numerous times during his career, and isn't the fastest player out there by any means.

Now, if it was Ricky Fowler complaining, I would pay more attention since he maintains a very good pace of play.

[Zwick]

Why does it matter who is complaining?

The person doesn't change the matter...

When even the medium to slow players complain, then it is really a problem.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Zwick

Why does it matter who is complaining?

The person doesn't change the matter...

When even the medium to slow players complain, then it is really a problem.

Don't think anyone is saying the slow play isn't the problem.  Just seems hypocritical that someone (Tiger) who is part of the problem is complaining about the problem.  Get it?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Don't think anyone is saying the slow play isn't the problem.  Just seems hypocritical that someone (Tiger) who is part of the problem is complaining about the problem.  Get it?

Even assuming you're right (which is not a given), it's not hypocritical unless he wouldn't be subject to the same rules/penalties he's suggesting should be implemented.  It may be surprising and even ironic if a person like Holmes, Na or Crane suggested stricter governance of slow play, but it wouldn't benefit them and would possibly hurt them, so it doesn't take any credibility away from them.

Brandon

[Bullitt5339]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Don't think anyone is saying the slow play isn't the problem.  Just seems hypocritical that someone (Tiger) who is part of the problem is complaining about the problem.  Get it?

Not only a part of the problem historically, but has complained in the past about being rushed by being put on the clock openly to the press.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

Not only a part of the problem historically, but has complained in the past about being rushed by being put on the clock openly to the press.

Yeah, it's a total joke for him to say something about it.  It would be like James Harrison on the Steelers saying the league needs to crack down on late hits.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

While the slow play on the tour is annoying, I take Tiger's comments with a grain of salt.  He's not the one who should be speaking out against slow play.  Anyone remember at the Bridgestone in 2009 when him and Harrington were put on the clock?  Then he was fined for speaking out against the rules official that put him on the clock, even though they were clearly behind the pace of play even after J.B. Holmes held up play for a while waiting on a rules official right in a group in front of them?  Tiger has been on the clock numerous times during his career, and isn't the fastest player out there by any means.

Now, if it was Ricky Fowler complaining, I would pay more attention since he maintains a very good pace of play.

Anybody have a transcript of this?  I've heard it said that Harrington is one of the slowest players on tour, and I'd like to see if Tiger wasn't specifically complaining about himself being put on the clock if it wasn't him who was slowing the pace of play.

Brandon

[Bullitt5339]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Even assuming you're right (which is not a given), it's not hypocritical unless he wouldn't be subject to the same rules/penalties he's suggesting should be implemented.  It may be surprising and even ironic if a person like Holmes, Na or Crane suggested stricter governance of slow play, but it wouldn't benefit them and would possibly hurt them, so it doesn't take any credibility away from them.

Brandon

It's hypocritical because he was on national TV 2 years ago complaining about being put on the clock and how badly it affected the outcome of the tournament because him and his playing partner were rushed.  Now he's in interviews saying that they should tighten up the rules on slow play, when he was complaining about how the rules regarding slow play effected the outcome of a tournament 2 years ago.

You can't have it both ways.

[Bullitt5339]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Anybody have a transcript of this?  I've heard it said that Harrington is one of the slowest players on tour, and I'd like to see if Tiger wasn't specifically complaining about himself being put on the clock if it wasn't him who was slowing the pace of play.

Brandon

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/woods-angry-over-being-put-clock

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/woods-angry-over-being-put-clock

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2012/5/14/3019208/tiger-woods-players-championship-2012-slow-play

Here's an interesting one from yesterday.  LOL!

[bplewis24]

So, this is what I found:

Quote:

Woods:

"Like I was telling him (Harrington) out there, 'I'm sorry that John got in the way of a great battle,' because it was such a great battle for 16 holes," Woods said. "And unfortunately, that happened."

In other words, utterly classless.

Quote:

"He had to get in there quickly and hit it," Woods said. "That was a shot you don't want to get in there quickly and hit. You want to take your time and figure out exactly what you want to do. And I think by rushing like he had to, it forced him to make a couple mistakes." Woods' remarks were highly unusual and are likely to land him a fine from the PGA Tour.

Why am I not surprised that the implication was sinister since it was regarding Woods?  People will exaggerate anything to bash somebody they dislike.  It's funny that the actual official even admits he feels bad that he got in the way.

Brandon

[pw8iron]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

Anyone remember at the Bridgestone in 2009 when him and Harrington were put on the clock?  Then he was fined for speaking out against the rules official that put him on the clock, even though they were clearly behind the pace of play even after J.B. Holmes held up play for a while waiting on a rules official right in a group in front of them?

Paddy is notorious slow, I know that much.  Tiger is a poor example honestly, because they might as well stick a camera up his ass, with as much coverage as he receives.  How many tour players play "deliberate" and are never called out (Ben Crane, Sean O'Tortoise), because they are journeyman, who nobody knows or pays attention to.

I do find it ironic that the Pebble Beach Pro Am is generally one of the slowest pace of play tournaments every year.  When you get Bill Murray acting like a clown on every hole you can't blame the tour pros for that side show.

[pw8iron]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

So, this is what I found:

Why am I not surprised that the implication was sinister since it was regarding Woods?  People will exaggerate anything to bash somebody they dislike.  It's funny that the actual official even admits he feels bad that he got in the way.

Brandon

Eldrick is the most polarizing figure in golf.  You either love him or hate him.  No fence sitters.  In this situation I'd place all the blame on Paddy, as he's notoriously slow in general.