Tonight is our club pairs league.. Question on calling out another player.

[ApocG10]

Ok, a partner and I entered a league around here that alternates between two courses. Throughout the season, you play every team in match play, (combined score, not best ball), and you play the teams in your own division twice.

Anyway, tonight we are playing a team with one golfer we call, 'Perfect Lie Paul'. We call him this because no matter how bad he hits the ball, he seems to 'find'  his ball in a perfect lie with a perfect lane to the green. Everyone knows he cheats, either/or changing his lie, or dropping a ball and pretending its his, but with a lack of rules officials to catch him, nobody has called him out. He got his name in the league because the word 'lie' can be used in two ways of course. To lie to someone, and to have a perfect lie in golf.

Anyway, what would you guys do? What can you do to catch a guy like this?  Would you call him out to stop him from doing it, or ignore it until you can get proof? Im thinking if I call him out (lightly), he may not do it while playing against us. But aside from following him around all round, I dont know what to do.

[iacas]

I might just be really helpful in helping him find his ball, while always keeping him in front of you. i.e. Never wander away "looking for his ball" and turn your back on him.

In fact, I'd stay really close to him at all times, even if he's in the fairway, because he might prop it up on a tuft there, too.

Of course, the downside is that you'll spend all this time worrying about him, and this might only work if you can get into the mindset you need to play your shots quickly enough when it's time.

[showtime583]

My sentiments exactly!!! Watch his ball like a hawk and be OVERLY helpful in helping him locate it.....try this for the first few holes and see how it goes. Also, declare what type of ball you're all playing on the first tee....then casually ask him what he's playing. At least you'll have an idea of what to look for - and you'll be able to tell on the green if he switched out or not!

It's one thing if it's a casual round, but in the words of the great Walter Sobchak, "Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?"

[Jeff Gibson]

Ugh I hate cheaters. Once a cheater - always a cheater. This man might just think it is all in fun, and might not even realize the nickname he has been given. Maybe consider speaking to him about it before the round, a day or so before, privately of course. Simply say that although you are sure his morals are intact, there have been rumors going around that he cheats. And that you do not want these rumors to persist.

If you do not feel comfortable doing this, walk up to him on the first tee, shake his hand, look him in the eye, and say "I am looking forward to a fair round today - hopefully you are as well"

If you see him doing something - immeadiately call him out. Don't be embarassed to follow him around - chances are you will spook him so bad he will be scared to do it! :)

[ApocG10]

Ya, that was my first thought. Im not a slow player, and as long as I dont end up in the woods off the tee, im rarely in the woods from 200 yards and in, so it shouldn't feel too much like rushing.

Even his partner is embarrassed about it, having no idea paul was a cheater before they started playing together. But as he said, 'i'd call him on it if I saw him do it, but I havent seen it with my own eyes, even though I know he's doing it."

I consider it protecting the field to stop him from doing it, so I wont feel bad about calling him on it. Not to mention, Kevin (my partner) and I, are sitting in a tie for second (even though its only the 4th round of the season).

Winners get free membership at both clubs next year, so it isnt like the prizes are insignificant either. Second is 500$ each at the pro-shop, and 3rd is 250$ at the shop.. So its not just a bragging rights league, cheating is also stealing.

[ApocG10]

Oh, just so you all know, both courses are run by the same group,  which is why they can alternate courses. Theres also an executive 9 hole on the south side of the main course. For members, you can join one course or the other, or join both for one price, and get free membership to the 9 hole as well.

[VMAN]

I wouldn't talk to him beforehand, not worth the hassle if you ask me.  When I play with people of a dubious nature, I just help them find their ball and keep them in sight.  It's amazing how many people find their ball once you've turned around.  It also works to really get some bearings when you see a ball land in tall grass or the woods or the rough.  I've seen guys find their ball 30 to 40 yds from where I placed the landing and found the ball after their illegal drop.  Not that I was trying to do that, but it's happened.

The other simple thing to do is to let everyone know what ball you are playing and how it's marked.  I've also seen people start holes with Titleist and finish with Pinnacles...oops.  Sometimes it's an honest mistake, but still a penalty.

Third thing to do, is when a ball goes into a position that may be unfindable ask them to hit a provisional.  Some will say no, but it's really in the best interest of the whole league since it speeds up play and avoids arguments about sending someone back to the tee.

[Shorty]

On the first tee I might say something like.

"Mine's a Bridgestone e6 4 with two blue dots"

If he doesn't respond in kind, I'd look at him again while I repeated exactly the same thing.

That pretty much puts the ball in his court.

He can make a point of saying nothing or he can do the right thing.

Chances are that all the other balls in his bag, although marked won't be the same number.

And.......Never trust ANYONE who walks around with a ball in their pocket unless they're going to a tee a long way from where the bags are parked.

[Motley01]

Ya it's strange, that at the start of your match, that you all don't identify each other balls and markings on the #1 tee?

I play in Amateur Tournaments all summer long, and it's the rules, stated very clearly, that we must all each idenitify each of our balls and markings, on the first tee.

If we hit a tee shot that looks like it may be lost, we MUST hit a provisional, and also identify which ball the provisional is (must be different from the original ball).

We also swap score cards with others within our foursome. So there is very little cheating going on.

These are USGA rules, so your league should be playing by these?

[dsc123]

If you see him improve his lie, wait and see what score he reports.  "Bogey?  Man, that would have been a par without that 2 stroke penalty for improving your lie.  Nice hole."

The easiest way would be if you have to attest his score.  Just refuse.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Shorty

And.......Never trust ANYONE who walks around with a ball in their pocket unless they're going to a tee a long way from where the bags are parked.

That's too harsh. I always carry an extra ball in my pocket to save time on provisionals.

[ApocG10]

Well, it seems that my partner had the same idea as all of you. He and I took turns 'helping' Paul, and his hateful, smug face. Seriously, this guy is new to the course, and I doubt he will even get a partner next year, unless he sucks in a newbie.

Had a great match though. We beat them 6-2, which was surprising and a lot of fun. I thought they were better That moves my partner and I into sole possession of second, as the team we were tied for third with lost, the team in second loss, we won and moved up. Paul and his partner are somewhere around 20th.

This guy hates losing so badly, that I couldnt help but smile when we got ahead by two in 3 holes. They never got near us, beating us on 6 when my drive got wet, and 13 where my partner was lost off the tee, and I 3 putted (three goddamn times last night). The tied holes were almost all interesting. I shot an 82, my partner an 85. They shot a 90 and 94. I think paul has a vanity handicap.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by zeg

That's too harsh. I always carry an extra ball in my pocket to save time on provisionals.

I carry a ball in my pocket, always marked, but with a different number than my original. Im always willing to show them the new ball in my pocket if they are wondering. If '1' is on the ground, '2' is in my pocket.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

I carry a ball in my pocket, always marked, but with a different number than my original. Im always willing to show them the new ball in my pocket if they are wondering. If '1' is on the ground, '2' is in my pocket.

Yep, same here. I usually have J1 in play, J2 in my pocket, and J3 in the bag in case I lose one.

[Motley01]

So you didn't mention, did Paul try to drop a ball, or improve his lie? Or were you and your partner just so helpful, that he didn't even have a chance too?

[Old1964]

You might offer to buy the dude a t-shirt with "perfect lie paul" on it.

Maybe he will look for another league next year...

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by Motley01

So you didn't mention, did Paul try to drop a ball, or improve his lie? Or were you and your partner just so helpful, that he didn't even have a chance too?

there is one time he might have, but we have no proof, so ill say no. We were very, very helpful. Its the onyl time this year we play them. The rest of the league will start watching him as well, i think.

[Teepee65]

How about instead of walking to your ball first, go to his and check it out? How could he change his "lie" if you have witnessed his drive.