Tiger Woods: Not Fan Friendly

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by gwlee7

I think you missed my point which was that Tiger could be well served to be grateful that people even care about golf in the first place.  If no one cared about golf (i.e. if it were tiddlywinks or something like that), there wouldn't be any money to play for, or endorsements either.  Off the course, he can have sex with llamas for all I care.  I am stricly talking about it being good to remember that if no one cared to watch, he wouldn't be getting paid. He would not make money if there were no fans.

Nobody comes to see Tiger or any other sports figure because they are nice guys. Some of them are and some of them aren't.  But people come to see them because they do something very difficult at an amazingly proficient level.  Expecting anything more than performance in their sport would be like your boss expecting you to wash his car because without him you wouldn't have a job.  Tiger gets paid for playing golf and selling products..  You get to watch the golf because you paid an admission fee.  Tiger owes nothing beyond playing golf and satisfying his sponsors.  You deserve nothing but to watch the golf.

[shockingslicer]

Its about genorosity of spirit - he aint got none , clearly , maybe he was dying for a crap or a pee and

[inthehole]

Here's the deal as I see it.    It's fine if Tiger doesn't do autographs  pre or post round, whatever.      As a human being, when there's only five people standing there as he walked by them he SHOULD have EXPECTED they would be looking at him ... and at least acknowledged them, especially since there were three young girls who got up early to see a glimpse of him.    He simply should have had the courtesy & common decency to at least acknowledge them with a quick smile or nod (unless of course he was engaged in conversation with someone he was walking with, which the OP did not mention, so I don't think that was the case).      It's not like there was a huge crowd, it was 5 people, which makes it even more shatty that he walked right by.     I feel for the guy with all the media beat downs he regularly gets but this is yet another reason Im not a big Tiger fan ...

[Mr. Desmond]

Agree with the above - if I see a guy coming off or on the course, or I'm walking on the sidewalk where we're crossing paths, and it's one of those situations where no one else is around, I think it's human nature of a well adjusted individual to at least acknowledge another, either by a simple act or words.

[Kapanda]

I always felt like sports figures' personalities should make them more appealing to fans, but never actually less appealing.

They should be admired solely for their sports performance. If they happen to have a good personality, great. If not, that's not what matters anyway.

I see turtleback made that point already, in his own graceful manner.

[gwlee7]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Nobody comes to see Tiger or any other sports figure because they are nice guys. Some of them are and some of them aren't.  But people come to see them because they do something very difficult at an amazingly proficient level.  Expecting anything more than performance in their sport would be like your boss expecting you to wash his car because without him you wouldn't have a job.  Tiger gets paid for playing golf and selling products..  You get to watch the golf because you paid an admission fee.  Tiger owes nothing beyond playing golf and satisfying his sponsors.  You deserve nothing but to watch the golf.

Again, you're not understanding the crux of what I am saying.  You are startng with the premise that there is something inherently important enough about the game of golf that makes people have to watch it be played at the highest levels.  That is not my premise.  My premise is that if at the outset and the very beginning no one cared, Tiger wouldn't have a job.  Granted, that isn't the reality but once again, it would serve Tiger (and all other pro atheletes for that matter) well to remember how arbitrary the interest is in the first place.  He's fortunate that he excells at a game that people have an interest in watching.  If he were an elite "curler" I doubt he'd have the riches that he does.  That is my one and only point about this.  If you honestly think that I deserve nothing but to watch Tiger play golf, well, I am just going to stare at you.  Tiger and I owe each other nothing in that respect.   Once again, if golf were not important to people, Tiger would not have a job.

Oh and to the idea that I should wash my boss's car because I wouldn't have a job without him is not remotely the same thing.  Not being a dick to my boss would be more along the lines of what the OP is saying. Once again, I am only thinking that Tiger and all other pro atheletes should be grateful that our society places so much emphasis on sports that he is able to make a very generous living playing a game.

[Golfaxis]

Common etiquette,manners, amd kindness would be to at least acknowledge the girls and their dads, instead of looking through them as if they were untouchables. Tiger, as we already know, lacks morals, and now you can add etiquette and manners to the list (his parents can take the most responsibility for this). This takes nothing away from his success in golf because he is/was a fine golfer...but as a human being he fails miserably. People should recognize this about him and focus on other pros who possess the qualities we'd like to see in a well-rounded golfer.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Golfaxis

Common etiquette,manners, amd kindness would be to at least acknowledge the girls and their dads, instead of looking through them as if they were untouchables. Tiger, as we already know, lacks morals, and now you can add etiquette and manners to the list (his parents can take the most responsibility for this). This takes nothing away from his success in golf because he is/was a fine golfer...but as a human being he fails miserably. People should recognize this about him and focus on other pros who possess the qualities we'd like to see in a well-rounded golfer.

Fundamentally disagree with this. People should care less whether the guy is a stand-up human being or not. He does what we pay him to do - play golf - extremely well, and his personality has no bearing on his productivity at all.

[Zeph]

Common etiquette,manners, amd kindness would be to at least acknowledge the girls and their dads, instead of looking through them as if they were untouchables. Tiger, as we already know, lacks morals, and now you can add etiquette and manners to the list (his parents can take the most responsibility for this). This takes nothing away from his success in golf because he is/was a fine golfer...but as a human being he fails miserably. People should recognize this about him and focus on other pros who possess the qualities we'd like to see in a well-rounded golfer.

I'm so glad you are able to analyze Tiger as a human being in so many aspects based on a situation like this. As always, people on the internet knows best.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Agree with the above - if I see a guy coming off or on the course, or I'm walking on the sidewalk where we're crossing paths, and it's one of those situations where no one else is around, I think it's human nature of a well adjusted individual to at least acknowledge another, either by a simple act or words.

It is or it isn't. There are a lot of very subtle back and forths when meeting someone on a path, in a hallway, on the sidewalk, etc. Very slight body and head moves are mirrored (in reverse) by both parties or there'd be people bumping into each other all day long. If I meet someone and their gaze is at the floor as the approach, then I might not say anything or acknowledge them, because it appears that's how they want it - to pass without a hint of interruption.

[Golfaxis]

I'm not arguing his golf skills are not A+, because they are. I will give him that much. As a human, he scores an F- in my books. I personally look at the whole package and am not looking for perfection in a person, just common sense and courtesy towards others. Isn't that part of the game of golf, or is that only reserved for the course and once you step off you can be a jerk? There are too many great athletes that embody both aspects that can be great role models for at least my kids.

[Zeph]

It is or it isn't. There are a lot of very subtle back and forths when meeting someone on a path, in a hallway, on the sidewalk, etc. Very slight body and head moves are mirrored (in reverse) by both parties or there'd be people bumping into each other all day long. If I meet someone and their gaze is at the floor as the approach, then I might not say anything or acknowledge them, because it appears that's how they want it - to pass without a hint of interruption.

I'm not one to seek contact with others in situations like these. If I don't know the person, I don't feel any need to greet them. Depends on the situation of course, but I'm just not that kind of guy. People can call it bad manners as much as they want, but it's not a bad idea to reflect every once in a while on how different people are. Pick two random strangers on a street and you can find two completely different people. One might give you a hug and invite you to a party later that day. The other might not even acknowledge your existence, but bow his head and keep on walking. Tiger, Phil and all the other guys are out there because they can play good golf. If you want your kids to learn anything from them, look at their results and their swings. The thing to take away from Tiger is that he has accomplished something extraordinary, and he's spent countless hours on it. He didn't become who he is by chance. If you are looking for role models for the kids, I say you should probably look at the people they surround themselves with from day to day. The biggest influence obviously coming from the parents.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by gwlee7

Again, you're not understanding the crux of what I am saying.

Why do people pull this "you don't understand my point" nonsense?  It is not that I don't understand your point, it is that I disagree with it.  And the proof is that despite what YOU see as Tiger's personal failings, there is little doubt that he significantly enlarged the fanbase of the PGATour - so he has done more than his part with his play.  No one is "owed" anything more.

Originally Posted by Golfaxis

I'm not arguing his golf skills are not A+, because they are. I will give him that much. As a human, he scores an F- in my books. I personally look at the whole package and am not looking for perfection in a person, just common sense and courtesy towards others. Isn't that part of the game of golf, or is that only reserved for the course and once you step off you can be a jerk? There are too many great athletes that embody both aspects that can be great role models for at least my kids.

You look at the whole package, huh?  Because you have spent so much time with him and can even SEE the whole package?  A clue:  the "whole package" cannot be seen just from what you see on TV and hear on discussion boards.  Maybe YOU should be the role model for your kids, not farm it out to someone else?

Originally Posted by Zeph

I'm not one to seek contact with others in situations like these. If I don't know the person, I don't feel any need to greet them. Depends on the situation of course, but I'm just not that kind of guy.

People can call it bad manners as much as they want, but it's not a bad idea to reflect every once in a while on how different people are.

Pick two random strangers on a street and you can find two completely different people. One might give you a hug and invite you to a party later that day. The other might not even acknowledge your existence, but bow his head and keep on walking.

Tiger, Phil and all the other guys are out there because they can play good golf. If you want your kids to learn anything from them, look at their results and their swings. The thing to take away from Tiger is that he has accomplished something extraordinary, and he's spent countless hours on it. He didn't become who he is by chance. If you are looking for role models for the kids, I say you should probably look at the people they surround themselves with from day to day. The biggest influence obviously coming from the parents.

+1

[gwlee7]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Why do people pull this "you don't understand my point" nonsense?  It is not that I don't understand your point, it is that I disagree with it.  And the proof is that despite what YOU see as Tiger's personal failings, there is little doubt that he significantly enlarged the fanbase of the PGATour - so he has done more than his part with his play.  No one is "owed" anything more.

Maybe some of us pull it because YOU think and have it all in your head that I care about Tiger outside of golf.  I don't.  I too agree that he is fun to watch and would never argue against all that he has done for the professional game.  My point once again is about how fortunate he is to be playing a game that people/sponsors/advertisers/TV networks will pay to watch him play in the first place.  Other than that, I agree with almost all of what you've been saying.

[Zeph]

Fortunate in doing what he loves and the money, yes. The downside being his limited options for a private life.

[brocks]

I can assure you the "story" is 100% true. I can't see why you think that I'm coming across as an a-hole. I think as Onlybereaved said, even a fake smile or a little wave or acknowledgment of their presence would have left the girls feeling better.

No doubt about that, but it's not his job to make your girls feel better. I'm not going to read the whole thread, so maybe this has been said before, but have you considered the possibility that if he had given the fake smile and wave you wanted, then the other people there (not you, of course) would have taken that as a sign that he was in a mood to sign autographs or even chat, and would have approached him? And then he would have had to be even more rude to avoid being delayed as other people saw what was going on, and started mobbing him? Maybe that wouldn't have happened that day, but it's probably happened to him in the past. Tiger has been a fan favorite for over 20 years. It seems extremely likely to me that during that time, he has had the experience of trying to be nice to a fan, and ended up with the people he didn't have time to get to, whether he had signed one or a hundred or a thousand autographs, calling him an a-hole like you did. He probably decided a long time ago that the best way to handle things is to ignore the fans who think they have a right to interact with him at places and times other than those designated for it. Another thing to consider is that not everyone is as nice or considerate as you and your girls. There are lots of people who hate him, for various reasons. Allowing them to get close might actually be dangerous. There are lots of people who like him, but are clueless, like the people who want him to give them a high five while he's walking to the next tee, when their hands are all sweaty, or greasy from sunblock --- that would really help his tee shot. There are people who bring their kids to get autographs just so they can sell them on Ebay. There might be women (or men, I guess) who, if he gives them a fake smile, take that as a sign of sexual interest, and start stalking him. And there is no way he can tell whether or not you are in any of those categories. The safest thing for him to do is to discourage all strangers from approaching him. Just enjoy the golf. If he HAD given you an autograph, it wouldn't mean he's your pal. Maybe your girls don't understand that, but you should.

[Doctorfro]

Tiger Woods is basically a social a$$hole.  I have talked to people who know him from the tour and they say he's a royal jerk.  Now I understand where the OP is coming from but at the same time, before the tournament is probably a no-no.  Trying to get focused, etc. I get it. But the fact that he doesn't take time for the fans afterwards is proof that he doesn't understand who is funding his paychecks.  Spoiled brat mentality in my opinion.  And yes, I sometimes root for him in tournaments.  What he does on the course is pretty amazing sometimes.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

It is or it isn't. There are a lot of very subtle back and forths when meeting someone on a path, in a hallway, on the sidewalk, etc. Very slight body and head moves are mirrored (in reverse) by both parties or there'd be people bumping into each other all day long. If I meet someone and their gaze is at the floor as the approach, then I might not say anything or acknowledge them, because it appears that's how they want it - to pass without a hint of interruption.

Agree - some people have their eyes averted anywhere but at the next person. That's okay, too. Sometimes, it's a cultural issues, sometimes it's avoidance. It's interesting.