How Much Short Of The Hole Are The Guys You Play With?

[Sandy Trap]

My playing partners tend to have an accurate understanding of their club distances.  Some of us are similar and some of us are longer or shorter but we pick the right clubs.  No egos.  I don't think needing a longer club is something to be ashamed about.  The important thing is how close to the pin you can place it.

[NM Golf]

My regular group consists of handicappers 5 or less so distance control is not much of an issue. I do notice this when I go out and play with the general public though. What cracks me up though is guys will hit their drives left or right into the rough and drive 20-30 yards past it before they begin to look for it. Also, I see guys who only hit their drivers 190-200 yards yet when they come to the 9th hole at my course which is a 200 yard par 3 they pull out an iron and hit is 40 yards short. I played with an awesome old guy a few weeks ago that didn't hit the ball very far but he was super straight. He hit driver on all 18 holes. He made a comment about how old age has made club selection really easy.

[LovinItAll]

I will say this: the number of people with whom I've played golf who had a reasonable chance of going OVER a green is very, very, very small. FWIW, I'm included in that group. And I don't mean by blading a chip or a pitching wedge or something, I mean legitimately getting a ball that jumps a little and flies over the green. 99.9% of people are at the hole or short of it.

Good players hit it past the flag when necessary, but it's a decision they make based on slope of the green, pin position, etc. Most people just don't take enough club. If folks think that 10 yards - 30 feet - is their distance between clubs, I think a lot of people would be surprised how often they're picking the wrong stick by a wide margin. As folks have said, people often choose yardages for their clubs based on absolutely flushing it. Even better players (say 3-8 cappers) are far from wearing out the sweet spot, while folks above that seldom hit it flush during a round, despite what they'd like to think. Watching golf on Thursday and Friday, one sees pros miss it short all the time because they didn't hit it flush. If they're missing the sweet spot, well........ A couple of people have said that distance control is not an issue in their groups. Lemme tell ya, distance control is always an issue. Distance and direction are, ultimately, the only two things that matter. Every golfer, from Tiger down, has issues with these two things on a regular basis. Golfers are, as a whole, eternal optimists, and there is nothing wrong with that. It costs them some (many) shots/round, but as long as they walk off the course happy, more power to them.

[Valleygolfer]

Generally I am dead on as long as I have the right distances. Just not about 10-15 yards right or left 80% of the time. I have a few holes that I can never nail the yardage and often fly the green. Stupid inaccurate markers.

[k-troop]

I'd say most people are going to be short most of the time.

For the good player:

--short is usually better than long on most holes, and

--no one goes through a pre-shot routine planning to mis-hit a shot, and no one (not even pros) hits every shot perfectly.

For the 25 handicapper, throw in:

--"stock distance" is based off of your best shot, typically,

--failure to understand the complete impact of wind and elevation, and

--a large percentage of shots are mis-hits.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by k-troop

I'd say most people are going to be short most of the time.

For the good player:

--short is usually better than long on most holes, and

--no one goes through a pre-shot routine planning to mis-hit a shot, and no one (not even pros) hits every shot perfectly.

For the 25 handicapper, throw in:

--"stock distance" is based off of your best shot, typically,

--failure to understand the complete impact of wind and elevation, and

--a large percentage of shots are mis-hits.

Yeah, I'm still failing to see why being short of the pin is worse than being long. People routinely flying greens causes all sorts of slow play issues ihmo.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Yeah, I'm still failing to see why being short of the pin is worse than being long. People routinely flying greens causes all sorts of slow play issues ihmo.

I think it's the 20 to 30 yards short of the green that people are talking about.  I played with some guys back in November that were like that.  They were literally short on every single hole, and one of them actually made a comment about the weather affecting his distances because he usually hit his eight-iron 150.  Ain't.  No.  Way.

It was just a case of consistent under-clubbing based on the yardages he thought he hit the ball

[GaijinGolfer]

I dont have a regular group that I play with but most of the people that I get grouped up with tend to be the type who celebrate any time they get a G.I.R.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by bwdial

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Yeah, I'm still failing to see why being short of the pin is worse than being long. People routinely flying greens causes all sorts of slow play issues ihmo.

I think it's the 20 to 30 yards short of the green that people are talking about.  I played with some guys back in November that were like that.  They were literally short on every single hole, and one of them actually made a comment about the weather affecting his distances because he usually hit his eight-iron 150.  Ain't.  No.  Way.

It was just a case of consistent under-clubbing based on the yardages he thought he hit the ball

As long as you're on foot and carrying your bag, still not seeing the problem, other than it would get annoying to hear the excuses all day. I came up short once yesterday (flubbed a simple 110 yard wedge from the middle of the fairway - not a misjudged distance). I walked to the ball, quickly pitched the ball to < 5 feet and putted out. Not any slower or more painful than hitting out of the back trees or from the sod walled pot bunker pin high left.

Now, if those guys are in carts, and it's paths only, then yes that would get extremely frustrating after awhile.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Day after day, I watch as guys I play with fail to hit anough club on their approach shots. If we say that 10 yards (30 feet) is about a club, guys are routinely 1-2 clubs short, more on deep greens. Even with that knowledge, they'll step up time after time and hit their '150 yard 7i' 130-135 yards and still be convinced that it's their 150 yd. club despite all evidence against it. Occassionally I'll challenge someone to blow it over the green for a small wager and they'll have to drop 2-3 clubs minimum to have any chance at all.

I made the poll 'your buddies' because I know everyone here - even the 20+ HC'ers - get the ball to the hole, right?!?!

Funny, I'm the EXACT opposite.     I learned my distances, and now as my swing has improved, I'm compressing the ball more & my miss now is always long, overshooting the green.   It's far more frustrating than hitting it short - meaning, when I absolutely stripe one & it feels great, I'm over the green in the ditch.     I just can't seem to allow myself to trust my new distances, but I have to - it's tough to make yourself believe you're gonna hit a 7 iron 160 when you're used to hitting it 140-145.

[bplewis24]

For the 25 handicapper, throw in:

--"stock distance" is based off of your best shot, typically,

--a large percentage of shots are mis-hits.

[BuckeyeNut]

My partners all use lasers and know their distances well.   Obviously....they don't always execute, but it's generally with the correct stick.  Most greens on my home course have distinct sections and it's KEY to hit the correct half of the green or a 3-putt is coming.

[LovinItAll]

Originally Posted by k-troop

I'd say most people are going to be short most of the time.

For the good player:

--short is usually better than long on most holes, and

Though this may sound like it, I'm really not trying to be argumentative. You play to a three, so you're doing a lot of things right. I'd say this, though:

- On an average course, there'll be six pins front, six middle, six back

- Planning to hit the approach 15 feet (1/2 club) past the hole on the short/middle pins will not usually be additionally penal. If that's the game plan, then a mis-hit leaves the player hole high or 15 feet short. Even for a good player who has a 'perfect' yardage for a particular shot, a mis-hit is going to be 15-30 feet short (or more) and almost never pin high. I'm no less guilty than anyone else, though. If I think I have perfect yardage, I'm pulling that stick. When I don't hit it perfectly (disregarding direction), which is usually, I'm going to be short - it may be 6 feet or 16 feet, but it will be short.

- I'm not sure that I agree that short is usually better than long, even if long results in missing the green. Greens are usually far more guarded in the front than in the rear. Note that I said 'usually', as severely sloping back-to-front greens, etc. provide additional challenges. Also, I realize that being in a bunker is often preferential to a good player than being in tall, greenside rough.

Let's face it, the vast majority of people don't break 80 (or 90), and three putting isn't their main obstacle. Once a player can get the ball in the air consistently, I think a major potential scoring error they make is overestimating their distances. When I hear 15 handicappers say, "I have control of my distances", the only thing I can say is that I haven't played with them. Mid-high 80's shooters may be the greatest benefactors of hitting a little more club. They're hitting the ball well enough that their game is starting to have some potential, but not good enough to accurately hit to a desired distance the majority of the time on the course. These are the guys that go to the range, get in a groove, and will actually hit a bunch of shots a particular distance, but on the course, it's a different story. Hard to convince them of that, though.

Maybe I'm playing with groups of people that are not representative of most golfers, but that's really hard for me to believe, as I play at least once/week with new people. To see the poll answers being 'Almost Never' with 'One to Two Clubs Short' COMBINED barely equal to that is not my experience at all.

I do appreciate the 'I finally hit the damn green...Hallelujah!' responses, though. I run into plenty of guys like that.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop

I'd say most people are going to be short most of the time.

For the good player:

--short is usually better than long on most holes, and

Though this may sound like it, I'm really not trying to be argumentative. You play to a three, so you're doing a lot of things right. I'd say this, though:

- On an average course, there'll be six pins front, six middle, six back

- Planning to hit the approach 15 feet (1/2 club) past the hole on the short/middle pins will not usually be additionally penal. If that's the game plan, then a mis-hit leaves the player hole high or 15 feet short. Even for a good player who has a 'perfect' yardage for a particular shot, a mis-hit is going to be 15-30 feet short (or more) and almost never pin high. I'm no less guilty than anyone else, though. If I think I have perfect yardage, I'm pulling that stick. When I don't hit it perfectly (disregarding direction), which is usually, I'm going to be short - it may be 6 feet or 16 feet, but it will be short.

- I'm not sure that I agree that short is usually better than long, even if long results in missing the green. Greens are usually far more guarded in the front than in the rear. Note that I said 'usually', as severely sloping back-to-front greens, etc. provide additional challenges. Also, I realize that being in a bunker is often preferential to a good player than being in tall, greenside rough.

Let's face it, the vast majority of people don't break 80 (or 90), and three putting isn't their main obstacle. Once a player can get the ball in the air consistently, I think a major potential scoring error they make is overestimating their distances. When I hear 15 handicappers say, "I have control of my distances", the only thing I can say is that I haven't played with them. Mid-high 80's shooters may be the greatest benefactors of hitting a little more club. They're hitting the ball well enough that their game is starting to have some potential, but not good enough to accurately hit to a desired distance the majority of the time on the course. These are the guys that go to the range, get in a groove, and will actually hit a bunch of shots a particular distance, but on the course, it's a different story. Hard to convince them of that, though.

Maybe I'm playing with groups of people that are not representative of most golfers, but that's really hard for me to believe, as I play at least once/week with new people. To see the poll answers being 'Almost Never' with 'One to Two Clubs Short' COMBINED barely equal to that is not my experience at all.

I do appreciate the 'I finally hit the damn green...Hallelujah!' responses, though. I run into plenty of guys like that.

It's likely the courses you play. My home course is a bit older with room to run the ball up, but hit to the back 1/3 of the green without a lot of spin or height and the ball is a goner. Something high handicappers struggle with hitting the ball high or with a lot of spin. The course features the following outcomes after an approach missed short versus one missed long. You tell me - which is the more desirable miss?

1 10-20 yards short of a centre pin =  fairway || 10-20 yards past a centre pin = pine trees or the pond on #2

2 short = fairway, just over the pond || long = pine trees or the #3 tee box

3 short =  fairway || long = swamp

4 short =  fairway || long = bush and more bush

5 short =  fairway of a bunker || long = pine trees

6 short =  fairway || long = bush fronting the pond shared with #2

7 short =  fairway or a bunker || long = deep rough and trees

8 short =  a bunker and fairway || long = long rough and trees with wood chips all over

9 short = fairway or a bunker  || long = long rough straight away, huge pine tree right and OB left

10 short =  fairway || long = trees and long rough - not too long though decent

11 short =  fairway and rough || long = rough and trees - you can luck out and get a decent lie

12 short =  same as #11

13 short =  fairway || long = deep bunker and trees

14 short =  fairway || long = trees, a pond, and if you're lucky, a bunker

15 short =  fairway || long = see #11

16 short =  fairway || long = very long rough

17 short =  fairway || long = a bunker, long rough, and the #18 teebox

18 short =  fairway || long = pine trees and terrible lies galore.

[BuckeyeNut]

Look....it's entirely dependent on the situation.  IE.... If my approach is over a bunker, my target is 15ft behind the cup.   My home course also has several holes with distinct halves to the greens.  IE......it may slope steeply uphill to the middle, and then fall away in a different direction on the back half.  Depending on the pin position, behind the pin is the place to hit the approach.  It just depends...

Hit it on the wrong half of the green, and a 3-putt is coming.......

[vo-man]

Alow handicapper friend of mine told me once that mid to high handicappers should always pull one club longer than you think you need....caclulate the shot, then pull one club longer and swing easy.  So I applied that to my game and I stopped coming up short so much of the time.

Arnold Palmer says in one of his instruction videos that you should always shoot for the back of the green with your approach shot...percentages will put you shorter and mid green most of the time, and if you do end up long it's better than being short and in the sand or water.  I've got my wedges dialed in pretty well so hitting to the back of the green is something I only do when I'm farther out than a wedge.  If I'm on target, directionally, It usually works just at Arnie says it will.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by vo-man

Alow handicapper friend of mine told me once that mid to high handicappers should always pull one club longer than you think you need....caclulate the shot, then pull one club longer and swing easy.  So I applied that to my game and I stopped coming up short so much of the time.

Arnold Palmer says in one of his instruction videos that you should always shoot for the back of the green with your approach shot...percentages will put you shorter and mid green most of the time, and if you do end up long it's better than being short and in the sand or water.  I've got my wedges dialed in pretty well so hitting to the back of the green is something I only do when I'm farther out than a wedge.  If I'm on target, directionally, It usually works just at Arnie says it will.

If I played Bay Hill I'd take extra club. Where I play now, that's just simply a bad idea.

[LovinItAll]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

If I played Bay Hill I'd take extra club. Where I play now, that's just simply a bad idea.

Because AP was only talking about playing at Bay Hill, right?