Colorado Man Goes on Shooting Spree in Movie Theater

[David in FL]

Read the article I posted. At the bottom the list the relevant CO law.

I read it. Consumer grade pepper/ tear gas spray has NOTHING in common with a "tear gas grenade"........ Again, if you can cite a reference showing that a tear gas grenade is legal to own I'd like to see it.

[Chilli Dipper]

Gun control is a complicated issue. Personally, I find nothing fundamentally wrong with private gun ownership, but to use an example that particularly pro-Second Amendment types like to bring up, the idea of everyone walking around carrying a firearm would not make me feel safe at all.

[David in FL]

I didn't think I needed to add a sarcasm tag about my comment but I probably overestimated the internet.  How many exRangers (or similiar) do you think were in the theatre? I am going to go with 0.  The average guy will be one that goes shooting a dozen times a year and pretty much has never fired a gun in a stressfull situation. I would be stunned if the people would outperform the police (20% hit ratio in most studies).  How come know one wishes that there was a kung-fu master in theatre that would have beaten the crap out of this guy?:-P

I'm curious, do you disagree with my original post? That I wish that someone legally carrying their own weapon had put one between his eyes before the body count got that high..... .....simple yes or no will suffice.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by Chilli Dipper

Gun control is a complicated issue. Personally, I find nothing fundamentally wrong with private gun ownership, but to use an example that particularly pro-Second Amendment types like to bring up, the idea of everyone walking around carrying a firearm would not make me feel safe at all.

You can pretty much walk around carying a gun anywhere in the country (with a permit).

[Golfingdad]

This looks familiar: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/comments-colorado-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

[Motley01]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

This looks familiar:  http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/comments-colorado-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

What exactly are you referring to? His looks? He looks like a freak loner.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Motley01

What exactly are you referring to? His looks? He looks like a freak loner.

Sorry, no.  The article.  It was discussing the comments at the bottom of the main article on the shooting.  I was basically fascinated at how it sounded virtually identical to this thread.  It even started with a comment a guy made about wishing somebody in the theater had a gun to shoot him.

[StrikeOne]

Gun control is a complicated issue. Personally, I find nothing fundamentally wrong with private gun ownership, but to use an example that particularly pro-Second Amendment types like to bring up, the idea of everyone walking around carrying a firearm would not make me feel safe at all.

[quote name="Gresh24" url="/t/60593/colorado-man-goes-on-shooting-spree-in-movie-theater/36#post_745633"] You can pretty much walk around carying a gun anywhere in the country (with a permit).  [/quote] You would probably be surprised to find out how many people around you carry guns every day. If you ran into me on the street, you would never know that I had a gun on me (legally, btw). There could very well have been people in that theatre that had guns, but chose not to act . Just because people carry guns, doesn't mean that they're all out looking for an opportunity to be a hero. Could it have been stopped? Maybe. Would I have tried? Don't know. I would like to think so, but at the same time I'm responsible enough to realize that you don't just pull out a gun and start blasting away. I'd also like to think that the majority of CCW holders are also aware of the responsibility that comes along with it.

[x129]

Yes.  But you example of having a trained person in the room capable of responding isn't realistic. There just are not of them around. Well trained people (police and general army guys) don't take one shot to drop an assailant a lot. Look at the Fort Hood shooting.

And equally unrealistic case would be wouldn't you prefer a world where this guy doesn't shoot anyone because buying an assault rifle is illegal? Sure but If he couldn't buy an assault rifle, you can still kill a lot of people with a pistol. You might not be able buy tear gas but making a molotov cocktail isn't rocket science. And so on.

Originally Posted by David in FL

I'm curious, do you disagree with my original post? That I wish that someone legally carrying their own weapon had put one between his eyes before the body count got that high.....

.....simple yes or no will suffice.

[David in FL]

Yes.  But you example of having a trained person in the room capable of responding isn't realistic. There just are not of them around.

I didn't say anything about trained or not.....but I imagine that the families of these victims wish that someone had stopped this idiot before he wounded/killed their loved one, even if they weren't highly trained.

[x129]

No disputes that stopping the gunman would have been a win.  Who knows though if an untrained person with a gun would have helped. Maybe they would have just added 6 more bullets being shot into a mass of humanity. Heck maybe the surviors would have told the police there were 2 gun man and the "hero" would have been gun downed when a swat team stormed the theater. Maybe the gunman would have stayed longer in the theater (I am not sure really why this thing ended. The stories just have him walking out and giving himself up). We are all guessing based on our personal biases towards/against guns.

I didn't say anything about trained or not.....but I imagine that the families of these victims wish that someone had stopped this idiot before he wounded/killed their loved one, even if they weren't highly trained.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by x129

We are all guessing based on our personal biases towards/against guns.

There's where you're wrong.....

Though yours clearly does, my bias has NOTHING to do with guns.  It has EVERYTHING to do with an individuals right to protect himself/herself and the people they love from those who would do them harm.

BTW.....here's something that just happened last week here in Central FL.  No highly trained individual....just a 71 year old man defending himself and others against a deadly attack.  It's interesting to note how quickly the two thugs lose all interest in what they were doing when confronted by someone who didn't just roll over and allow himself to become a victim.  That tends to be the way with most thugs and bullies though.......

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/19/florida-customer-who-shot-suspects-during-internet-cafe-robbery-will-not-face/

[x129]

And here is another link of a man defending his loved ones with his gun: http://http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/florida-man-mistakes-girlfriend-hog-shoots-her-211904311.html

And another one: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57413657-504083/ohio-man-kills-wife-and-daughter-in-shooting-rampage-at-cracker-barrel-restaurant-police-say/

And another one: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/24/11370496-gun-safety-class-backfires-man-shoots-self-and-wife?lite

and another one: http://www.wpbf.com/Police-Man-Mistakes-Wife-For-Burglar-Shoots-Her/-/8789538/9244348/-/6tvfyyz/-/index.html

Here is one of the gun doing the defense without the owner even needing to be there

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_921a50bb-c341-56ed-a058-7d6f6c8b2c18.html

And guns also encourage people to get shot:

Here someone dies over a loud party

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/man-claims-self-defense-fatal-shooting-neighbor-115652180--abc-news-topstories.html

You ignore those cases and focus on the ones where the gun gets the bad guy. Other people focus on cases like the ones I listed. And by the way, your example doesn't sound like a deadly attack. It sounds like a couple of kids robbing a store. The old guy shooting could have easily turned it into a deadly attack if the robbers decided to shoot back instead of run.  Google convience store killings and you will get a ton with people at both sides (robber and owner) being gunned down.  Do the robbers shoot first because they know the owner is armed (i.e. guns just make a robbery into a murder and a robbery) or would they have shot the guy just for fun?  Are the owners deterring crime (i.e. the robbers have to worry about getting shot) or just escalating the violence?

Everyone likes the bad guys getting their due but you can't ignore the collateral damage in deciding if something is good or not. And none of this has anything to do if some random person should be allowed to buy guns with 100 round clips.

Originally Posted by David in FL

There's where you're wrong.....

Though yours clearly does, my bias has NOTHING to do with guns.  It has EVERYTHING to do with an individuals right to protect himself/herself and the people they love from those who would do them harm.

BTW.....here's something that just happened last week here in Central FL.  No highly trained individual....just a 71 year old man defending himself and others against a deadly attack.  It's interesting to note how quickly the two thugs lose all interest in what they were doing when confronted by someone who didn't just roll over and allow himself to become a victim.  That tends to be the way with most thugs and bullies though.......

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/19/florida-customer-who-shot-suspects-during-internet-cafe-robbery-will-not-face/

[David in FL]

And by the way, your example doesn't sound like a deadly attack. It sounds like a couple of kids robbing a store.

Good grief. Gotta say, with "logic" like that, I've got nuthin'..... It does sadden me to know that there are people like you out there who do not believe that an individual has an absolute right to defend themselves against those that would do them harm. Likewise that you blame the tool used to commit a crime, rather than the person who used it. Personally, I believe a little more in personal liberty as well as the personal accountability that comes with that liberty.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by x129

Everyone likes the bad guys getting their due but you can't ignore the collateral damage in deciding if something is good or not. And none of this has anything to do if some random person should be allowed to buy guns with 100 round clips.

Searching Google or whatever for news is pointless. You'll find plenty of examples to support your case either way. NEITHER side should take that approach.

My thoughts and wishes are with the families of the victims and the victims clinging to life.

[x129]

I never said that that the old guy shooting was good or bad. You are the one drawing that conclusion. I said that it wasn't a deadly assault as far as I can tell and that drawing a gun and shooting escalates the situation. This time it worked out. Other times it doesn't

Originally Posted by David in FL

Good grief. Gotta say, with "logic" like that, I've got nuthin'.....

It does sadden me to know that there are people like you out there who do not believe that an individual has an absolute right to defend themselves against those that would do them harm. Likewise that you blame the tool used to commit a crime, rather than the person who used it.

Personally, I believe a little more in personal liberty as well as the personal accountability that comes with that liberty.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by x129

I never said that that the old guy shooting was good or bad. You are the one drawing that conclusion. I said that it wasn't a deadly assault as far as I can tell and that drawing a gun and shooting escalates the situation. This time it worked out. Other times it doesn't

And without any actual numbers or facts, it's all just guessing, which remains pointless.

[David in FL]

I never said that that the old guy shooting was good or bad. You are the one drawing that conclusion. I said that it wasn't a deadly assault as far as I can tell and that drawing a gun and shooting escalates the situation. This time it worked out. Other times it doesn't

Curious as to how you define deadly assault..... When 2 thugs rush into an establishment swinging a baseball bat and aiming a handgun, it's assault with a deadly weapon as far as I (and the State of FL) are concerned. Fortunately, the 71 year old was able to deter them before anything worse than that occurred. Regardless though......whether it "works out" or not, isn't the standard by which someone's right to defend themselves is decided. It IS worth noting though that anyone who decides to lawfully arm themselves carries with them the responsibility to act legally and appropriately in doing so.