12.4 green nightmare

[scv76]

Played last weekend at River Ridge Victoria Lakes in Oxnard, and the greens were stimped at 12.4.  I have never been on greens on any course that were that fast!!

I couldn't keep a ball on the green on approaches, and had several 4 putt episodes. (I usually avg about 34-37 putts per 18)

There are no practice greens anywhere near my location that are anywhere near that fast.

How would you prepare for a "fast" green if you knew you were going to be playing on one?

Edit: just noticed I posted this in the wrong area...please move to the proper area..thanks

[iacas]

How do you know they were truly 12.4?

Green speeds are often overstated by the superintendent. :)

[chilepepper]

Originally Posted by scv76

Played last weekend at River Ridge Victoria Lakes in Oxnard, and the greens were stimped at 12.4.  I have never been on greens on any course that were that fast!!

I couldn't keep a ball on the green on approaches, and had several 4 putt episodes. (I usually avg about 34-37 putts per 18)

There are no practice greens anywhere near my location that are anywhere near that fast.

How would you prepare for a "fast" green if you knew you were going to be playing on one?

Edit: just noticed I posted this in the wrong area...please move to the proper area..thanks

Get there early and warm up on the practice green is probably best. I understand the frustration though. Earlier this year I played a municipal course in the Allentown PA area and those green were crazy slick, bentgrass I assume. Much more so than the bermuda greens in S Cal I am used too

[scv76]

Originally Posted by iacas

How do you know they were truly 12.4?

Green speeds are often overstated by the superintendent. :)

I hear ya on that!

The course had the stimps listed for both of their courses...both were a little different; the course we did not play was measured at 11.8 as was their practice green. The practice green for the 12.4 course was closed that day.

I don't have the tool to make the measurements on my own.

[TourSpoon]

I used to play a stroke play event back in the day at Seminole Golf Club. The greens were double cut and rolled and are on par with Augusta. The caddies were saying they run high 12s. I used to put on my garage floor to get ready for this tournament.. I remembering 3 putting 7 times and shooting an 81 from the mid tees. They were crazy fast and I saw guys chip off the greens a few times. I have since played places that claim 11-12s, but they are manageable with some practice. I have never seen any greens come close to Seminole.

[turtleback]

I grew up playing New York City courses (Douglaston Park and Clearview).  Then I went to a 4 day golf school and played a course with real (fast) greens.  The first green I was on I had a 20 footer.  And promptly hit it 30 feet past the hole and off the green.  Culture shock!

[Danny H]

I played a course with 10-10.5 yesterday and they were the fastest i have ever played. couldn't imagine 12.4. 34 putts. not good

[scv76]

Here is a quote from Greenskeeper.org regarding the greens early last week on Monday (I played their two days earlier on Saturday)

"One word describes the greens here at present time.....quick!!!!. Downhill or downwind speeds were running close to a 13+ on the stimp...uphill or into the wind putts were probably still running around an 11." I assume someone measured them in order to make this statement.

Yeah, I had lots of chips onto and either off the green or 20-30 away for the day. The greens are huge in size, so you can be a long way away from the hole.

Think I'll try putting on the garage floor thanks Tourspoon for the suggestion.

So how do you handle the approach shots when in conditions like these greens? I'm a lousy golfer, so I literally don't get any kind of back spin on my chip shots.

Should I just plain plan on hitting onto the fringe and not try to land on the green?

[iacas]

Stimp doesn't change whether you're uphill or downhill. Stimp is a measure of the speed of the green, not a measure of the speed of a tilted surface. I could make a stimp 7 green "run at stimp 25" if I tilt it enough.

People routinely over-estimate the actual stimp speed of greens.

Maybe they were 12. I'd guess they were probably just 11 though.

[Audaxi]

I hear you on the difficulty of greens above 10. I'm used to around 9 or 10ish since its dry and high where I live, but have played greens at a 12. Those you need to land on the fringe for your approach shots to leave them on. My best suggestion is to either use a heavier putter or try to slow down your tempo. Tempo works the best for me, but I have friends who swear by the heavy putter on fast greens.

[Lefty-Golfer]

played in a member event at my club this weekend, the greens were double cut and rolled...very fast. i heard unending speculation on the practice green about the stimp number...bottom line is the supper told one of the guys they were 11 or 12...by the time we got back in the mens room the rumor was they were 12.5!! LOL people love to speculate.

they were freakin fast is all i can tell you and you had better stay below the hole or you were problably going to get below it on your next shot!! you quickly find out who can putt on greens like that!!

[TourSpoon]

Here is a quote from Greenskeeper.org regarding the greens early last week on Monday (I played their two days earlier on Saturday) "One word describes the greens here at present time.....quick!!!!. Downhill or downwind speeds were running close to a 13+ on the stimp...uphill or into the wind putts were probably still running around an 11." I assume someone measured them in order to make this statement. Yeah, I had lots of chips onto and either off the green or 20-30 away for the day. The greens are huge in size, so you can be a long way away from the hole. Think I'll try putting on the garage floor thanks Tourspoon for the suggestion. So how do you handle the approach shots when in conditions like these greens? I'm a lousy golfer, so I literally don't get any kind of back spin on my chip shots. Should I just plain plan on hitting onto the fringe and not try to land on the green?

If the greens are that hard, sometimes you have to bounce them on to a front pin especially long shots.. For other pins you need to allow for the ball to run out, more so with the clubs with lower trajectories. In these conditions the high ball hitters have an advantage holding the greens.

[saevel25]

I tell you what, saturday i played some fast greens. Don't know what the step was, but 5 footers were running like 8 footers or more. It took me nine holes to get use to them. If it wasn't for three putting a handful off holes and lost balls i would have played well.. These greens totally caught me by surprise.

[lumpuckeroo]

Originally Posted by scv76

How would you prepare for a "fast" green if you knew you were going to be playing on one?

I'm not sure there is a good way to prepare for fast greens if you don't have access to a putting surface that is as fast as the greens.  So I find you basically have to adjust as you play, I find that concentrating on the line and less on the speed will help, kind of sounds counter-intuitive, but getting the ball rolling on line IMHO is more important than speed on fast greens.  I find the opposite on slow greens, I concentrate on speed and less on the line, if I hit the right speed (or with pace) I can eliminate break.

Not sure that process would work for everyone, but it does for me, it kind of eliminates one aspect of the putt.  I know I putt best when I'm really only concentrating on one or the other, Line or Speed.  At the beginning of the year my home course greens were running pretty fast, but as the horrible summer progressed, they let the greens grow to try and keep them alive and they have gotten slower.  We actually got an inch of rain on them and Sunday they were at their slowest and I actually had one of my best putting day, 27 putts, with a lot of 6-8 footers going in because all I had to do was putt them firm and not worry about the break.

[scv76]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm going to go back out there and use their practice greens for a few hours, even though the course reports that the practice areas are a little slower than the actual greens. They will still be like lightning compared to the 8-9 that I usually play on.

By the way Iacas, the course measured the speeds and posted at the clubhouse, so it wasn't just somebodies estimate of the speeds. The quote from Greenskeeper was from one of the major contributors at the site who plays there quite often; so it was just probably his opinion about the downhill speeds.

[boogielicious]

Try to keep your approach shots below the hole for putting.  Also, visualize the putt being a lot shorter than you normally would.  I played a course in Salem, MA last year that had very fast greens.  I struggled on the first couple of holes but then started to visualize the putts being 1/2 as long.  That really helped control the speed.