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Audaxi

AP2, MP 59, MP 69, or Ping

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I've been looking around for new irons because, after 2 years of serious golfing and trying to improve, I've found my Ping Eye 2's just aren't quite working for me. The forgiveness is superb, but that's the problem for me. I've been to the point where I was shanking it off the toe because I gradually worked my way there without feeling it off the face. You have to use impact tape to really figure out more than you hit it off the extreme toe or heel. I've been looking around and was trying to decide between the new Titleist AP2's, the Mizuno MP-59's and MP-69's, and the Ping S56's and possibly the i20's. I know pings irons are all cast, but I'm not sure how much of a difference in feel it makes, and I'm looking to have a club with a small bit of forgiveness, for those occasional mis-hits. However, I'd like to be able to hit both draws and fades should I need to, though my swing now tends to hit straight shots. I was wondering if anyone has experience with these clubs to compare with the Eye 2's or with each other, and provide some recommendations to try for when I buy in around a year (to let the prices on all of these come down a little).

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Originally Posted by Audaxi

I've been looking around for new irons because, after 2 years of serious golfing and trying to improve, I've found my Ping Eye 2's just aren't quite working for me. The forgiveness is superb, but that's the problem for me. I've been to the point where I was shanking it off the toe because I gradually worked my way there without feeling it off the face. You have to use impact tape to really figure out more than you hit it off the extreme toe or heel. I've been looking around and was trying to decide between the new Titleist AP2's, the Mizuno MP-59's and MP-69's, and the Ping S56's and possibly the i20's. I know pings irons are all cast, but I'm not sure how much of a difference in feel it makes, and I'm looking to have a club with a small bit of forgiveness, for those occasional mis-hits. However, I'd like to be able to hit both draws and fades should I need to, though my swing now tends to hit straight shots. I was wondering if anyone has experience with these clubs to compare with the Eye 2's or with each other, and provide some recommendations to try for when I buy in around a year (to let the prices on all of these come down a little).

If you are looking for less forgiveness, don't get the i20s.  I played with DCI 981's for 15 years up until last month when I bought new i20s for myself.  I like to think that the DCI's are similar to the CB 712s in forgiveness, but I don't really know that.  I'm just guessing because the appearance is quite similar, perimeter weighting wise.  (DCIs are cast)

Far and away, the biggest difference between the i20s and DCIs is the forgiveness.  I had no idea what I was giving up all this time, because when I miss the sweet spot (often) I tend to miss towards the toe, and the DCIs would rattle my hands and the ball would travel 60% (or less) as far as it needed to.  Unless it's way out on the toe (no amount of forgiveness is saving you from those horrid shots) the i20s lose very little in distance and, just as important, they don't rattle my hands.

I wil say that I can still feel that I missed it.  Even without impact tape, I can feel when it's a little toe-ward.  But if you want to be punished for your misses to help you make better contact, I'd probably lean towards the Mizunos or Titleists you mentioned.  They are more in the "players" category of clubs with less perimeter weighting and, I imagine less forgiveness on those toe hits.

Hope that helps.  Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

If you are looking for less forgiveness, don't get the i20s.  I played with DCI 981's for 15 years up until last month when I bought new i20s for myself.  I like to think that the DCI's are similar to the CB 712s in forgiveness, but I don't really know that.  I'm just guessing because the appearance is quite similar, perimeter weighting wise.  (DCIs are cast)

Far and away, the biggest difference between the i20s and DCIs is the forgiveness.  I had no idea what I was giving up all this time, because when I miss the sweet spot (often) I tend to miss towards the toe, and the DCIs would rattle my hands and the ball would travel 60% (or less) as far as it needed to.  Unless it's way out on the toe (no amount of forgiveness is saving you from those horrid shots) the i20s lose very little in distance and, just as important, they don't rattle my hands.

I wil say that I can still feel that I missed it.  Even without impact tape, I can feel when it's a little toe-ward.  But if you want to be punished for your misses to help you make better contact, I'd probably lean towards the Mizunos or Titleists you mentioned.  They are more in the "players" category of clubs with less perimeter weighting and, I imagine less forgiveness on those toe hits.

Hope that helps.  Good luck!

I'm fine with forgiveness as long as you can feel the mis-hit. The Eye 2's I just can't feel where on the face it is. How do the i20's feel and perform for you?

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Originally Posted by Audaxi

I'm fine with forgiveness as long as you can feel the mis-hit. The Eye 2's I just can't feel where on the face it is. How do the i20's feel and perform for you?

I absolutely love them so far.  Mostly because of the feel/forgiveness I mentioned above, but also, part of the reason is that they are fit to me.  I am tall and the old standard clubs I had were too short and flat, so some of the performance of the new irons is from them fitting.  Still working out the distances though ... better forgiveness, as well as longer and with slightly stronger lofts and they go a lot further than my old clubs.

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Beware that the Ping I20 series has problems with delamination so keep that in mind while making your decision. I will be upgrading my irons next season from my older Ping G5s.  I looked at I20s and loved them but the pro at my course said he'd heard too many bad stories about them.  I also looked at others and narrowed my options to either, Titleist 712 AP2s or Taylormade MCs, the Callaway Razrs didn't cut it I found, but this is all just personal opinion.

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I'm pretty happy with my AP2s. Unless you're a really good player I wouldn't recommend the MP69s. MP59s are about on par for forgiveness with the AP2s. The new MP64s I think are great irons which are right in between the 59s and 69s.

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I wouldn't call myself a really good player. I got lucky twice today in getting to 3' from the pin on approach shots after getting a really nice kick on one, and blind luck on the other (aimed for the middle but it faded to the right ). Otherwise I'm generally the person who's goal is to hit greens within 20' of the pin, or with a reasonable putt at it if the pin is guarded. I wasn't sure about adding the MP-64's as they are new, and I'm hoping to get one of these sets of irons when they're one model year older, and a little cheaper. Is the delamination a common problem with the i20 irons, and is there any known activity (besides just using them) that causes it to try to avoid? I also have heard that the MP-59's are slightly "clicky". Is there anyone who has them or has demo'd them to provide feedback on how big of an issue that is?

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You really should go demo them yourself. I wouldn't go with what someone else says regarding how a club "feels".
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You really should go demo them yourself. I wouldn't go with what someone else says regarding how a club "feels".

The only problem is the courses near where I live have had only one demo in the past 2 years, a ping one, and I havent seen any plans for more on Titleist or Mizuno's website. Is it worth it to go to Golfsmth or Golf Galaxy to try them on a launch monitor if you bring your clubs to try on the monitor as well. Also, is it ethical to try their clubs with no intention of buying for more than 6 months?

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Originally Posted by Audaxi

The only problem is the courses near where I live have had only one demo in the past 2 years, a ping one, and I havent seen any plans for more on Titleist or Mizuno's website. Is it worth it to go to Golfsmth or Golf Galaxy to try them on a launch monitor if you bring your clubs to try on the monitor as well. Also, is it ethical to try their clubs with no intention of buying for more than 6 months?

It is worth is to go to Golfsmith or Golf Galaxy and try clubs on a launch monitor, at least you will have a feel for the club and get to compare how different clubs perform.  In looking for a combination of feel and forgiveness, hitting them is the only way to know what works for you.  I will say the MP69 would probably not fit in that combination, a true blade like the MP69 will have very little forgiveness, but hit it so you have a comparison.  I played the MP62 prior to getting a set of MP68, for me the MP62 was a good compromise to a try blade.  The new MP63 also looks very nice and might be a good compromise, I was not a fan of the MP59, but liked the AP2.  So as you can see, you really need to make the decision based on what you like, not on what anyone is telling you.

It is ethical to try clubs 6 months before you buy!

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I just wanted to make sure it wasn't rude or anything to try them without buying anytime soon, as this will be my first major purchase besides a driver from a store. The rest I got a while ago online.
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I'm not sure but i doubt the guys work on commission at the big box stores, so why would they care?
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Just remember, if you ditch the Eye-2s you'll lose the ability to hit some shots--primarily skippies.

I've got the AP2s and I love them.  Feel is superb, and a reasonable amount of forgiveness.

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Today I demo'd the ping s56 irons, and I cant believe what I was missing out on. My swing visibly improved after 5 swings (I hit it in front of a pro) and the feel was excellent. However, I did notice the importance of shaft fitting. I hit the DG S300, and hit the ball shorter and less consistently than my Eye 2's with GS85 in them. However, when I put a KBS Tour stiff in it, it was a whole other story. I hit it great, gaining 10 yards from the Eye 2's and being able to hit any shot I wanted on command. Where the S300 was impossible for me to hit low (it ballooned like I've never seen before), I could hit my punch shots and a low stinger without much trouble at all. I didn't think the shaft could make that big a difference honestly, but I now see how wrong I was.
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Just tried the AP2, MP-64, MP-69, and s56 together with KBS Tour stiff shafts in all (confirmed with the fitter that those shafts were correct) and came to the conclusion that the MP-69's will be going in the bag sometime soon. The AP2's were eliminated right off the bat, as I hit my current 7 iron higher and longer than the AP2 6 iron. The MP-64 was next on the chopping block, as it had a very low trajectory with a landing angle of around 38* with a 6 iron. Lastly, the s56 was cut from my list for a few reasons. While I hit it longer and liked how it's head seemed a little more squat, I had some distance consistency issues. I hit it about 205-210 on average, but every 1010th shot or so would behave oddly and go 220 yards. This was on a golfsmith machine, however, so I can probably assume it's at least 5 yards long. The MP-69, however, I hit very consistently at 200-205 yards with a 6 iron, with a fairly tight dispersion pattern. Landing angle was averaging 45* and had a spin rate averaging 5200 rpm and a launch angle of about 14-15*, all with a 6 iron. The MP-64's felt like I was compressing a stick of butter into a golf ball when I hit it, vey soft with great workability. On an interesting side-note, I found that the s56, with more offset, promoted a fade for me, while the MP-69 gave me a nice 3-5 yard draw. Overall, I believe the MP-69 is an amazing club, and far more forgiving than I expected from a blade while still providing accurate feedback as to where on the face you hit the ball.
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You're going to love those MP-69's.  I wish I pulled the trigger on those last year when I bought my MP-59's.  Don't get me wrong... I love my MP-59's... But the 69's are beautiful and felt superb.

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Originally Posted by Beachcomber

You're going to love those MP-69's.  I wish I pulled the trigger on those last year when I bought my MP-59's.  Don't get me wrong... I love my MP-59's... But the 69's are beautiful and felt superb.

Are you gonna switch to 69? I'm waiting for the 64s to come to my shop then I'll most likely buy them or the 69s.

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I hit the 64 and the 69, and personally didn't feel much difference in feel between the two. However, my launch and landing angle were MUCH lower on the 64 when I hit it, and the spinrate spiked as well with the same shaft in it. Seemed slightly odd, but that's how my swing reacted to it. The 64 doesn't quite seem to have the same weight at the bottom of the club that the MP-69's bulge appears to accomplish. However, they both felt amazing off the face, and I don't think I'll be changing my mind when I retest all the irons and add in the i20 and Titleist MB's.

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