Lost Ball- Do you have to look?

[MEfree]

Suppose I am playing and hit a ball into a nasty area where it is potentially lost.  Knowing that I might not find it, I hit a provisional and hit a career best shot (i.e. a hole in one on a par 4).  Knowing that I am better off playing my provisional, do I have to make an effort to find my original?

[sean_miller]

Are you asking If once the ball was holed it automatically became the ball in play? If not, then in your example you've made a 3. Why would you even look? In case you holed out from the rough?

[Big C]

I think he's asking if the rules of golf require a player to make a good faith effort to find their original ball, regardless of the outcome of the provisional. I don't know the answer to that question and would be curious to hear from others that do.

[VOX]

You don't need to look for your ball but if your opponent finds it he can make you identify it. If it is yours, you must play it unless you have hit your provisional again from a point closer to the hole than you original ball is likely to be, or if you holed your provisional, before you remove it from the cup.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Big C

I think he's asking if the rules of golf require a player to make a good faith effort to find their original ball, regardless of the outcome of the provisional. I don't know the answer to that question and would be curious to hear from others that do.

I didn't answer that way because I thought it was a commonly understood rule. You're not compelled to look. An opponent might be though, but in his example the ball is holed so that's another question entirely.

[Golfingdad]

Something very similar to this came up at the Buick Invitational in 2001 (had to look it up, memory's not that good).  A playoff between Mickelson and Frank Lickliter.  They both hit their tee shots into the canyon to the left of the 17th fairway, and both hit provisionals.  Lickliter's was found and was unplayable and Mickelson wanted to play his fourth from the center of the fairway so he didn't look (or stopped looking*) for his.  (*I don't remember if he didn't look at all, or if he gave a half-assed attempt)  While he was walking to his provisional, a "good-samaritan" marshal found his ball for him.  It was also unplayable, so he had to abandon the provisional and go re-tee ... and he almost put it in the canyon a second time.  Luckily for him, FL 3-putted for a triple so he managed to win the tournament with a double bogey.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Are you asking If once the ball was holed it automatically became the ball in play? If not, then in your example you've made a 3. Why would you even look? In case you holed out from the rough?

No, I shouldn`t have said the ball was hole in my example as that confuses the issue.

Originally Posted by Big C

I think he's asking if the rules of golf require a player to make a good faith effort to find their original ball, regardless of the outcome of the provisional. I don't know the answer to that question and would be curious to hear from others that do.

Yes

Originally Posted by VOX

You don't need to look for your ball but if your opponent finds it he can make you identify it. If it is yours, you must play it unless you have hit your provisional again from a point closer to the hole than you original ball is likely to be, or if you holed your provisional, before you remove it from the cup.

Thanks...this is what I think Snedeker did at the Open.  Interesting that you are given the option of how hard to look for a ball based on how well you hit a provisional. I was trying to make this point in another thread, but everyone else was either focused on something else or...

[dv7834]

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2012/06/must-you-search-for-your-lost-ball.html

A well-explained answer can be found here, along with other burning questions.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Interesting that you are given the option of how hard to look for a ball based on how well you hit a provisional. I was trying to make this point in another thread, but everyone else was either focused on something else or...

Have to remember that hitting a provisional (or in this case almost like a new ball) is not like a second service in tennis. In golf you add couple of strokes.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by luu5

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEfree

Interesting that you are given the option of how hard to look for a ball based on how well you hit a provisional. I was trying to make this point in another thread, but everyone else was either focused on something else or...

Have to remember that hitting a provisional (or in this case almost like a new ball) is not like a second service in tennis. In golf you add couple of strokes.

No you add one penalty stroke to the actual strokes taken.  MEFree knows that already.  But holed out in 3 is still better than lying one in deep rough that you may not even be able to hit out of.

Just one point of possible clarification.  You are not required to seach for your original ball, but it is not lost until either the 5 minute search is up, or the player has taken an action to cause it to be deemed lost.  Those actions would be:

1)  Playing from the original spot without declaring a provisional ball

2)  Playing a stroke with the provisional ball from a spot at or closer to the hole than the original ball is thought to be

3)  Removing the holed provisional ball from the hole

[lumpuckeroo]

Originally Posted by dv7834

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2012/06/must-you-search-for-your-lost-ball.html

A well-explained answer can be found here, along with other burning questions.

This sight has a very good example of the situation, however, what they didn't really mention is that while you cannot simply declare you ball lost, you don't have to put forth effort to look for it either.  This is like having to throw 4 pitches to intentional walk a batter in baseball, in casual play I wouldn't waste 5 minutes standing around to declare my ball lost, I would just say it's lost and move on.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by lumpuckeroo

Quote:

Originally Posted by dv7834

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2012/06/must-you-search-for-your-lost-ball.html

A well-explained answer can be found here, along with other burning questions.

This sight has a very good example of the situation, however, what they didn't really mention is that while you cannot simply declare you ball lost, you don't have to put forth effort to look for it either.  This is like having to throw 4 pitches to intentional walk a batter in baseball, in casual play I wouldn't waste 5 minutes standing around to declare my ball lost, I would just say it's lost and move on.

You don't have to stand around for 5 minutes even in a competition.  Read my post right above yours.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No you add one penalty stroke to the actual strokes taken.  MEFree knows that already.  But holed out in 3 is still better than lying one in deep rough that you may not even be able to hit out of.

I know also that and assume MEFree knows that. Just wanted to add that it is not without a price. Of course in this case it would be nice to have holed out, but let's not get carried away. In any case hitting a provisonal and declaring unplayable (by rehitting), are in the end the same thing. Score wise.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You don't have to stand around for 5 minutes even in a competition.  Read my post right above yours.

Heck, if you're just standing around, you might be guilty of unduly delaying play!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Interesting that you are given the option of how hard to look for a ball based on how well you hit a provisional. I was trying to make this point in another thread, but everyone else was either focused on something else or...

You are not "given the option" of  how hard to look "based on how well you hit a provisional." No way, no how. You're given the option to look or not 100% of the time, and your opponents are given the same.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by iacas

You are not "given the option" of  how hard to look "based on how well you hit a provisional." No way, no how. You're given the option to look or not 100% of the time, and your opponents are given the same.

Yes, but the practical effect is that if you hit a provisional so good that it doesn`t make sense to look for your provisional, then you won`t look for it.  OTOH, if you hit poorly on your provisional, you are likely to take the full 5 minutes.  So practically speaking, the player (and his opponents if match play) effectively have the option on how hard to look and will exercise this option based in large part on how well the provisional is hit.  The rules don`t say this explicitly, but in a practical sense, this is how it works.  I stand by my statement.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Yes, but the practical effect is that if you hit a provisional so good that it doesn`t make sense to look for your provisional, then you won`t look for it.

That's not at all what you said. I can only respond to what's typed.

There are "practical effects" to everything. Players don't ask their fellow competitors to mark their ball when it's two feet behind the hole and they are chipping, but you can darn well bet that a reasonably skilled competitor is going to ask you to mark the ball if it's in FRONT of the hole. The "practical effect" of this is that a ball behind the hole may stop your ball closer and a ball in front may stop it from going in.

The rules are clear, and give the same options regardless of the condition of your provisional.

Originally Posted by MEfree

OTOH, if you hit poorly on your provisional, you are likely to take the full 5 minutes.

So? That's your right. What's your point? That players will use the rules to their benefit when possible? Good for them. Obviously you're not saying you want to force people to look for five minutes every time. Players have options. The smarter the player, and the better they know the Rules, the more likely they are to be aware of their options. The same goes for their opponents.

But again, what's your point? In a sentence, please.

Your original question was answered: you're not required to make a "good faith" effort. You have the option to not look for your ball. Your opponent has the option to look for your ball.

Originally Posted by MEfree

So practically speaking, the player (and his opponents if match play) effectively have the option on how hard to look and will exercise this option based in large part on how well the provisional is hit.  The rules don`t say this explicitly, but in a practical sense, this is how it works.  I stand by my statement.

Nope. You can rephrase it all you want but you always have the option to look or not to look, and your opponents have the same (until they do not). What changes is whether the player (or his opponent) feels it's worth looking or not.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

You are not "given the option" of  how hard to look "based on how well you hit a provisional." No way, no how. You're given the option to look or not 100% of the time, and your opponents are given the same.

Yes, but the practical effect is that if you hit a provisional so good that it doesn`t make sense to look for your provisional, then you won`t look for it.  OTOH, if you hit poorly on your provisional, you are likely to take the full 5 minutes.  So practically speaking, the player (and his opponents if match play) effectively have the option on how hard to look and will exercise this option based in large part on how well the provisional is hit.  The rules don`t say this explicitly, but in a practical sense, this is how it works.  I stand by my statement.

I can just about guarantee you that no matter how well I may hit my provisional ball, I'm going to make at least a minimal effort to find the original ball, simply because I will save one stroke almost 100% of the time if I find it.  I have hit probably several hundred provisional balls in my life, and I have never failed to at least make a token effort to find the ball.  If my original ball is in so much trouble that I won't look for it, then I'm not even bothering to call the second ball a provisional.