Butch Harmon Golf Swing

[mvmac]

Interesting video by instructor Joe Mayo taking a closer look at Butch's move

[jimdandy]

Wow Dr. Obvious, anything else you can tell us. Not for nothing, but i could have given the analysis you gave, sheesh.

You're not really a pro instructor are you? Experts will give the why's and how's, the good and bad, etc.

You basically said...."okay...he turns his hips, and his shoulders, no flex in right knee, flex in left knee, and now I'm going to play the rest of the swing"....HUH!??

If your point was to dispute what he teaches, than just friggin say that!

[Tax Man Golfeth]

Troll. Interesting how instructors at that level will describe their swing one way as they do it differently.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

Wow Dr. Obvious, anything else you can tell us. Not for nothing, but i could have given the analysis you gave, sheesh.

You're not really a pro instructor are you? Experts will give the why's and how's, the good and bad, etc.

You basically said...."okay...he turns his hips, and his shoulders, no flex in right knee, flex in left knee, and now I'm going to play the rest of the swing"....HUH!??

If your point was to dispute what he teaches, than just friggin say that!

Originally Posted by Tax Man Golfeth

Troll.

Interesting how instructors at that level will describe their swing one way as they do it differently.

Seriously.

His point wasn't to dispute what Butch Harmon teaches ... his point was to show that Butch Harmon disputes what Butch Harmon teaches .  He lays out some of the things Butch promotes (hands in front, flexed right knee, minimal flat hip turn) then shows that he clearly doesn't do any of those.

I think it's fascinating.

[jamo]

Wow Dr. Obvious, anything else you can tell us. Not for nothing, but i could have given the analysis you gave, sheesh. You're not really a pro instructor are you? Experts will give the why's and how's, the good and bad, etc. You basically said...."okay...he turns his hips, and his shoulders, no flex in right knee, flex in left knee, and now I'm going to play the rest of the swing"....HUH!?? If your point was to dispute what he teaches, than just friggin say that!

Who exactly are you talking to? Mvmac didn't make this video. He says that right in the OP.

[poser]

I knew Butch was stack and tilt OMG!!!

[Beachcomber]

Has Butch been working with Foley?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Has Butch been working with Foley?

No just watching his Dad, Claude's swing Definitely see some similarities with both top of the back swing positions.  Looks similar to Phil's knee/leg work

[TourSpoon]

I love when "Professionals" talk smack about other "Professionals" as it is so unprofessional, IMO. I hope I have that kind of move when I am 69 years old. Not too shabby Butch.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I love when "Professionals" talk smack about other "Professionals" as it is so unprofessional, IMO. I hope I have that kind of move when I am 69 years old. Not too shabby Butch.

Just wondering if you are being sarcastic. Do you think it is wrong of Mike and the originator of that video to be criticizing Butch?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I love when "Professionals" talk smack about other "Professionals" as it is so unprofessional, IMO. I hope I have that kind of move when I am 69 years old. Not too shabby Butch.

Butch's record speaks for itself, he's one of the great coaches of all time.  This is a site for sharing opinions, asking questions and trying to learn more.  These kind of videos make people think and that's why I posted it.

I'd love to have that move now!  Amazing how similar his swing is to that pic of Claude's.

[TourSpoon]

Just wondering if you are being sarcastic. Do you think it is wrong of Mike and the originator of that video to be criticizing Butch?

I didn't think Mike really was criticizing Butch in this thread. I don't know why the originator made the video, but why is he analyzing a guy's swing who is 69 years old? An instrucor's body of work is more than their own swing at 69. As far as criticizing people in your own line of work publically, it is not the most professional thing to do. I don't see this in other professions and I think that it can cause ill feelings and even reflect poorly on the person doing it. This guy says he is not making a big deal about this, but that seems slightly disingenuous to me. But that's just me.

[TourSpoon]

I don't think anyone is talking smack, just making observations.  Butch's record speaks for itself, he's one of the great instructors of all time.  This is a site for sharing opinions, asking questions and trying to learn more.  These kind of videos make people think and that's why I posted it.   I'd love to have that move now!  Amazing how similar his swing is to that pic of Claude's.

I never said you were off base. Obviously, Butch has a great move, but that really wasn't made clear, nor was it the purpose of the narration.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I love when "Professionals" talk smack about other "Professionals" as it is so unprofessional, IMO. I hope I have that kind of move when I am 69 years old. Not too shabby Butch.

I don't think anyone is talking smack, just making observations.  Butch's record speaks for itself, he's one of the great instructors of all time.  This is a site for sharing opinions, asking questions and trying to learn more.  These kind of videos make people think and that's why I posted it.

I'd love to have that move now!  Amazing how similar his swing is to that pic of Claude's.

I've heard Erik say this as well. That's he's one of the greatest teachers of all time. I just don't see it at all.

If you're talking about getting out of a player's way maybe during a tournament... sharing a "Mr.Hogan" story to make the student feel like he is at the vanguard of golf instruction... making business deals... sure, he's great. He's probably great at giving course management and mental related tips.

But he doesn't know the ball flight laws. He gives out incorrect information constantly. This second part alone should be enough for people to stop putting him at the top of the pyramid.

I'm not hating on him for the sake of hating on him. Nor am I jealous. Nor do I think I know everything about golf. But why is it clear as day to me that Butch Harmon is completely overrated as a teacher? There are just so many instances where he says something that is completely false. It's like the guy has refused to learn a single thing about mechanics since 1970. I just don't get it.

Again, please (the general crowd here, not Erik and Mike specifically because I know they are always straight shooters) leave out the personal attacks against me for criticizing him. I'm going to attempt to preemptively address the typical "what do you know, you never played on tour" slash "where do you come off with such unwarranted statements" type arguments. I feel like the child in the crowd trying to tell everyone that the emperor has no clothes.

But honestly, if you guys could just constructively inform me on why he's held so high as a teacher. I'd really appreciate it.

[TourSpoon]

I've heard Erik say this as well. That's he's one of the greatest teachers of all time. I just don't see it at all. If you're talking about getting out of a player's way maybe during a tournament... sharing a "Mr.Hogan" story to make the student feel like he is at the vanguard of golf instruction... making business deals... sure, he's great. He's probably great at giving course management and mental related tips.  But he doesn't know the ball flight laws. He gives out incorrect information constantly. This second part alone should be enough for people to stop putting him at the top of the pyramid. I'm not hating on him for the sake of hating on him. Nor am I jealous. Nor do I think I know everything about golf. But why is it clear as day to me that Butch Harmon is completely overrated as a teacher? There are just so many instances where he says something that is completely false. It's like the guy has refused to learn a single thing about mechanics since 1970. I just don't get it. Again, please (the general crowd here, not Erik and Mike specifically because I know they are always straight shooters) leave out the personal attacks against me for criticizing him. I'm going to attempt to preemptively address the typical "what do you know, you never played on tour" slash "where do you come off with such unwarranted statements" type arguments. I feel like the child in the crowd trying to tell everyone that the emperor has no clothes. But honestly, if you guys could just constructively inform me on why he's held so high as a teacher. I'd really appreciate it.

Jet, you can have an opinion, it's going to be OK!

[JetFan1983]

Haha, well seriously, I know I'm walking on thin ice with this opinion; hence, the kid gloves I'm using with the issue.

And yea, I totally agree Butch has a great swing himself -- he did win one event on tour after all. He has a great move, there's no question, for any age, let alone his advanced age.

[newtogolf]

Watch some interviews with Harmon and get an understanding of his approach to teaching and you might gain some insight as to why people think he's a good swing coach.  I don't think he's perfect, but no one is.  I personally couldn't handle all the zen stuff Foley spews, but I'm sure he could help my game.

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Haha, well seriously, I know I'm walking on thin ice with this opinion; hence, the kid gloves I'm using with the issue.

And yea, I totally agree Butch has a great swing himself -- he did win one event on tour after all. He has a great move, there's no question, for any age, let alone his advanced age.

[Mr. Desmond]

Once again, we learn that feel is not real.

or "Do as I do, and not as I Say."

Or maybe it's "the more things change, the more they remain the same" when it comes to Butch and his Dad, and the swing.

I have the Harmon DVD, and unless memory fails, he does move his head back a bit, and his weight appears to on the back foot at the top. And that follow through, if he does not bend his right elbow and allows it to come around, looks familiar.

But good points in the video analysis. I think the commentator did not want to say anything negative about Butch, but only wished to point out certain aspects of his swing.