What's a more useful club: 3i/3h or gap wedge?

[David in FL]

Being an old club fiddler from way back this is right up my alley. SSSSOOOOO, here's my proposition. Only very good players can hit a green with any reasonable percentage with any club over 5 or 6 iron. Ask yourselves how many balls you'd land on the green with your 5 iron from say 180 meters. MMmmm? how often in a round would you go for the 4 iron? MMMmmm? My point is, get rid of the 2, 3, 4, 5 irons and replace the with one stick....... a 7 wood. Come on how many greens have you EVER hit a green with your 2 iron ....or even 3? Pros do but we're not pros ,so be realistic yeah. OK, next the 3 wood. What a weird thing the 3 wood is. It's an attack club on a par 5........and that's about it. So in reality your carrying a club to use twice in a round if your going to attack the 5's anyway. Wedges: wedges are nice.......but they are reliant on your tee shots. If you drive the ball badly you'll be reduced to using those lovely shiny wedges to hack the ball out of the scrub and not as the scoring clubs they're designed as SSSSSoooo, The driver sets the style of your play. if you hit the fairway then you get to use the wedges, if not well you know.... So, one of my club sets goes like this 3 drivers.......7 wood........6,7,8,9 irons.....pw, gap, sand wedges........chipper......putter Here's my rational, 3 drivers : 9 degree long shaft driver......The long bomber, great to try to make a birdie on a short par 4 or to make a birdie on a long par 5 but a 50/50 stick for me so I try to keep it in the bag as much as possible.  Driver 2: a "thriver" 14 degree medium length. This is the tee off club for 60 percent of of par 4's. Driver 3: a short shaft 20 degree 460 cc club. Great for short par 4's when you want position and safety. Its also a great club for longish par 3's, 160 meters and the like. The 460 cc driver head on a 42 inch shaft is almost a guarantee of middling the ball everytime. It's also a great club to stop the ball on the green on a long par 3(try that with a 3 iron) So onto the 7 wood. I'm a 6 to 10 handicap player and to me 2,3,4,5 irons are useless to me. My success rate just doesn't warrant me carrying these sticks. I can hit the 7 wood with more success than most of these clubs so I drop the irons and rely on "making up" a shot for fairway shots between 150 meters and 200 meters.  Wedges, pretty standard there. I've tried lob wedges but I find them to be too inconsistent. The lob wedge for me is a pro's club not a mid handicappers stick Ok to the green and the fringe. A chipper is a MUST for anyone that doesn't play of less than 10. Yeah, yeah , I know but come on the short game is the area where ordinary club players can pickup and save shots. A purpose built club for the close to the green shots is important.  Ok that's 13 clubs(I think) . so depending on where i'm playing or how my game is going I'll add a 5 iron, or a hybrid  or sometimes Ill add a second putter but that's another story.  I reckon the club sets that most mid to high handicappers are using are just not suited to them. They're the club set of the traditional pro golfer. They're based on the distance that these clubs will go and not on the job that the golfer wants them to perform.

If more mid to high handicaps were willing to examine their game and evaluate their needs honestly, they'd score MUCH better. I especially agree with adding a chipper. One of the best, and most under utilized clubs available. The average 18 hcp would be MUCH better served with that in the bag in place of the 60* LW that they can't hit consistently anyways!

[GaijinGolfer]

Id go with a gap wedge.  I find a gap wedge to be much more useful than a 3H.

[inthehole]

if you play alot of long par 3's ... a 3i off the tee is tough to beat.

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by David in FL

If more mid to high handicaps were willing to examine their game and evaluate their needs honestly, they'd score MUCH better. I especially agree with adding a chipper. One of the best, and most under utilized clubs available. The average 18 hcp would be MUCH better served with that in the bag in place of the 60* LW that they can't hit consistently anyways!

I'm thinking also of rounding out my wedges (46, 54) with a 50 and 58/60.  But since my biggest gains to be found (i.e., trouble lately) are in and around the green, I'll mess with a chipper or two.  I normally just wedge it up or use a mid iron as a chipper, but I'm NOT happy with that very close in game at all right now.  A dedicated chipper is definitely something else to think about.  Thanks

[Datsyuk]

Originally Posted by David in FL

If more mid to high handicaps were willing to examine their game and evaluate their needs honestly, they'd score MUCH better. I especially agree with adding a chipper. One of the best, and most under utilized clubs available. The average 18 hcp would be MUCH better served with that in the bag in place of the 60* LW that they can't hit consistently anyways!

While that's possibly true regarding the 60, it doesn't answer the 3h/i or GW question. I think he should get the gap wedge.

Back to the detour. Back in my day people chipped a lot. A cut lob was a shot used with caution. When/why did so many people start thinking a high spinning shot was the smart play with no trouble between them and the flag a a ton of green to work with?

[David in FL]

While that's possibly true regarding the 60, it doesn't answer the 3h/i or GW question. I think he should get the gap wedge.

If you'd read the entire thread, you'll notice that I answered the original question early on....

[x129]

Well the plus with the  high lofted drivers is that you are not tempted to hit them off the fairway.... I am not sure if I am a big fan of the 47" driver. Another 10 yards past a 45"  isn't worth much if you are not hitting  the fairway all day long.  My experience with a Long tom suggest to me that 48" was not a win.

Originally Posted by Yukari

It seems to me that you are just carrying 3W and 5W with different head sizes.  My 3W is 15 * Titleist 980f.

My clubs are shown in my signature.  I tend to use the gap wedge a lot because most of the par 4's I need either PW, GW, or SW for approach.  I also hit my 3W often off the tee to avoid going too long into a hazard with a driver.  I don't need 5W as I usually hit either 3I or 4I for 220-230 and 210-220 yds, respectively, for my second shot on some of the par 5's.

The club I tend to use the least are 5-8I.  I hardly ever pull out 5-7I and only rarely do I need 8I.

So I would look at the courses you play and see which club will get used most often.  From what the OP said, it looks like GW should be the one.

[logman]

Couldn't agree more with all your points datsyuk. I remember being taught many years ago when confronted with a short greenside shot that the percentage shot was to use a club with the least amount of loft possible. Has that theory gone out the window?

[geauxforbroke]

I am one of those people that use the 60 everywhere around the green. I rarely use a sand wedge or lob wedge. I never use an iron. I have more confidence playing a higher shot, and I'm much better getting it close playing it high. It may be easier to hole out with a lower lofted club, but it's also a lot easier for me to get my distance wrong. I don't really care what the theory was 40 years ago. The game has changed a lot since then.

To answer the question: go with the gap wedge.

[Yukari]

The problem with this is that most people use 3W and 5W off the fairway on long par 5's.  So if you have high lofted drivers as alternative to your 3W and 5W, you won't have a club that you can use for 200 + yards off the fairway.

And I agree with you that the length of the driver has gotten out of control-so to speak.  I can't see using a driver longer than 45" as you tend to lose control as you get longer driver.  My previous driver, I had it tipped (to make it more stiff and for better control) 1/2", so it was only 44-1/2".  With 910 D2, I have the standard length (45") but choke down 1/2".

Originally Posted by x129

Well the plus with the  high lofted drivers is that you are not tempted to hit them off the fairway.... I am not sure if I am a big fan of the 47" driver. Another 10 yards past a 45"  isn't worth much if you are not hitting  the fairway all day long.  My experience with a Long tom suggest to me that 48" was not a win.

[Datsyuk]

I am one of those people that use the 60 everywhere around the green. I rarely use a sand wedge or lob wedge. I never use an iron. I have more confidence playing a higher shot, and I'm much better getting it close playing it high. It may be easier to hole out with a lower lofted club, but it's also a lot easier for me to get my distance wrong. I don't really care what the theory was 40 years ago. The game has changed a lot since then.  To answer the question: go with the gap wedge.

Your first two sentences are contradictory. If you're about 4 then you likely have enough skill to always use a 60. Most golfers are not vey good with any club, but choosing a club and stroke that mimic a lag putt is a higher percentage play. When someone says they struggle with chipping withies than a 60 I assume they're also struggling with long putts.

[x129]

That isn't a problem. As I said it is a plus.  Hitting a 3 or 5 wood from the ground is a tough shot for a lot of mid-high handicappers and is likely to live in trouble.. They would be better off hitting the 6 iron 40 yards and having a slightly longer approach shot (if you are 200 yards out on a par 4 on a regular basis, you need to move up a tee). YMMV.

Quote:

The problem with this is that most people use 3W and 5W off the fairway on long par 5's.  So if you have high lofted drivers as alternative to your 3W and 5W, you won't have a club that you can use for 200 + yards off the fairway.

And I agree with you that the length of the driver has gotten out of control-so to speak.  I can't see using a driver longer than 45" as you tend to lose control as you get longer driver.  My previous driver, I had it tipped (to make it more stiff and for better control) 1/2", so it was only 44-1/2".  With 910 D2, I have the standard length (45") but choke down 1/2".

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by x129

That isn't a problem. As I said it is a plus.  Hitting a 3 or 5 wood from the ground is a tough shot for a lot of mid-high handicappers and is likely to live in trouble.. They would be better off hitting the 6 iron 40 yards and having a slightly longer approach shot (if you are 200 yards out on a par 4 on a regular basis, you need to move up a tee). YMMV.

Quote:

Agree.  I sometimes my 3-hybrid well off the deck and only use my 3-wood off the tee.  Im actually thinking about taking the 3H out of the bag in favor of a Niblick because I often feel like hitting my 5H or 6-iron to 100 yards out and then hitting my GW into the green would be a much better play than trying to smash a 3H and hitting a 150 yard line drive at best.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by Datsyuk

Your first two sentences are contradictory. If you're about 4 then you likely have enough skill to always use a 60. Most golfers are not vey good with any club, but choosing a club and stroke that mimic a lag putt is a higher percentage play. When someone says they struggle with chipping withies than a 60 I assume they're also struggling with long putts.

Meant to say I rarely use a sand wedge or gap wedge. Maybe a lower lofted club is a "higher percentage play" for some, certainly not for me.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I am one of those people that use the 60 everywhere around the green. I rarely use a sand wedge or lob wedge. I never use an iron. I have more confidence playing a higher shot, and I'm much better getting it close playing it high. It may be easier to hole out with a lower lofted club, but it's also a lot easier for me to get my distance wrong. I don't really care what the theory was 40 years ago. The game has changed a lot since then.

I'm similar.  On close green side shots I almost exclusively use my 60˚.  For longer shots that still need to be played as pitches or chips (ie, not long enough for the swing to qualify as more of a 1/2 wedge swing than a pitch), I've gone back to sometimes using my 54˚, as I've found I'm more consistent with a smoother, easier pitch stroke than a stronger stroke that's more a tweener, not a 1/2 full swing, not a pitch.  But I totally agree that distance control is MUCH harder trying to bump and run a mid or low iron, for me at least.

That seems like it isn't even really an opinion, but just physically true.  A 5i can hit the ball much further than a 60˚.  So if you over or undershoot optimal power with a 60˚ pitch and hit it X% too far or short, that X% with a 5i is going to translate into a much much bigger miss than it would with the 60˚.

[WUTiger]

Originally Posted by mdl

I'm similar.  On close green side shots I almost exclusively use my 60˚.  For longer shots that still need to be played as pitches or chips (ie, not long enough for the swing to qualify as more of a 1/2 wedge swing than a pitch), I've gone back to sometimes using my 54˚...,  But I totally agree that distance control is MUCH harder trying to bump and run a mid or low iron, for me at least.

The 60˚ LW is an interesting club. I know a half-dozen pros and small-college golfers who carry a 56˚ as their highest-lofted club, and say the 60˚ is just too unreliable. Then again, I've played with 20 HDCPers who made the 60˚ do magic tricks. Some people can hit it, but others can't.

As for a chipper, mine has the number 8 on the sole. If it's a chopped up lie from the edge of the green, I'll chip with my 4H. It pops the ball out of the bare spot and rolls it smoothly toward the hole. Again, whatever works.

For chips and pitches, you have to feel with your feet. It the green area feels like concrete, the ball will carry more once it lands. If it's velvety soft, less release and roll.

[Datsyuk]

Originally Posted by David in FL

If you'd read the entire thread, you'll notice that I answered the original question early on....

Sorry man, I was trying to make a joke in that first line. I'm connecting the dots in the match play handicapping thread now.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

I know a half-dozen pros and small-college golfers who carry a 56˚ as their highest-lofted club, and say the 60˚ is just too unreliable.

I hate to tell them, but it ain't the club that's unreliable. Personally, I like playing a more lofted club because you have to accelerate through it. I think a lot of amateurs struggle with their short game because they have the tendency to decelerate into the ball. I think you're more likely to do this with a lower lofted club.