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Plane on a Conveyor Belt

iacas

By iacas,
in The Grill Room

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(See the first question) Can the plane take off?  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. (See the first question) Can the plane take off?

    • No
      45
    • Yes
      39

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

Uhhhh…

Yeah, I was about to post a more informative response, but I'm good with this one as mine would go seriously off topic. . .

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Golfingdad
Golfingdad

Not to pick on Chopper here (just having a little fun) but this conversation is starting to remind me of this:

iacas
iacas

Good discussion guys. Thanks. ;) Ernest, the airplane's wheels just spin. If the plane was stationary (i.e. speed of 0), then the conveyor belt that "matched" that speed would also be at 0. Whe

Golfingdad
Golfingdad

I can appreciate this. I was in your position with that riddle they discussed in the beginning of the movie "21" about the MIT kids who took down Vegas. (It was the "lets make a deal, should you swi

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boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

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It leaves the flashlight at the speed of light, as the light is leaving relative to the object (the flashlight).

I will go and duck in a corner now as I am sure I am wrong on this one.  I'm a finance guy not a physicist!!!

You are correct! The speed of light is a constant.

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Gator Hazard Great Member

Gator Hazard

You are correct! The speed of light is a constant.

Yes!!!  Of course I am! I knew that all along.  I now feel confident in my abilities to build my experimental rocket ship.  Thank you.  :)

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

You are correct! The speed of light is a constant.

"c" is a constant.

Yes!!!  Of course I am! I knew that all along.  I now feel confident in my abilities to build my experimental rocket ship.  Thank you.  :)

The speed of light "c" is defined as a constant (which is light traveling in a vacuum and no other influences), but the speed that light travels through different medium is not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

In a medium, light usually does not propagate at a speed equal to c; further, different types of light wave will travel at different speeds. The speed at which the individual crests and troughs of a plane wave (a wave filling the whole space, with only one frequency) propagate is called the phase velocity vp. An actual physical signal with a finite extent (a pulse of light) travels at a different speed. The largest part of the pulse travels at the group velocity vg, and its earliest part travels at the front velocity vf.

Getting back to the not being able to see objects past the Solar System, it's a relative size issue and not a physics issue pertaining to the nature of light per se. Most objects are dim, but large like galaxies. These just require a long exposure time with a wide optical FOV. Whereas, objects like distant planets or dwarf planets are very tiny comparatively. http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/02141014-hubble-galaxy-pluto.html

This is why astronomers wish to build bigger and bigger apertures. The reason why it doesn't work on earth is because the atmosphere causes interference. This is why  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea_Observatories and other observatories are on top of mountains.

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

And back to making paper airplanes for me...........

 

Don't forget the rubber band propellers. :-)

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dsc123 Great Member

dsc123

 

"c" is a constant.

 

The speed of light "c" is defined as a constant (which is light traveling in a vacuum and no other influences), but the speed that light travels through different medium is not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

Getting back to the not being able to see objects past the Solar System, it's a relative size issue and not a physics issue pertaining to the nature of light per se. Most objects are dim, but large like galaxies. These just require a long exposure time with a wide optical FOV. Whereas, objects like distant planets or dwarf planets are very tiny comparatively. http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2013/02141014-hubble-galaxy-pluto.html

This is why astronomers wish to build bigger and bigger apertures. The reason why it doesn't work on earth is because the atmosphere causes interference. This is why  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea_Observatories and other observatories are on top of mountains.

I was just testing gator with some confidently stated, almost plausible (?) nonsense.  :beer:

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Gator Hazard Great Member

Gator Hazard

 

I was just testing gator with some confidently stated, almost plausible (?) nonsense.  :beer:

  Oh very funny mr. funny man.  I see how it's gonna be.  @Lihu can I borrow that golf ball cannon when it's ready?  :mad:

 

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

  Oh very funny mr. funny man.  I see how it's gonna be.  @Lihu can I borrow that golf ball cannon when it's ready?  :mad:

 

Sure, but @Pretzel might be using it for his senior project. :-D

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Pretzel Super Member

Pretzel

(edited)

  Oh very funny mr. funny man.  I see how it's gonna be.  @Lihu can I borrow that golf ball cannon when it's ready?  :mad:

I'll have it for you in about three and a half years, assuming the group agrees to do that as a project (since senior engineering projects are in groups now).

On the actual topic of the thread, the answer is yes. If you happened to be holding onto a frictionless bearing and someone started spinning the outside of the bearing, the inside of the bearing won't twist your finger. Similarly the wheels will not apply a braking force to the airplane as it tries to take off when the conveyor belt spins them in the opposite way. The net force from the conveyor belt to the airplane is only equal to the force of friction in the bearings on the wheel, which is far outweighed by the thrust of the engine.

Edited by Pretzel
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natureboy Great Member

natureboy

(edited)

What if the plane tried to take off in a hurricane force tailwind?

edit....on a short runway.

Edited by natureboy

Kevin


Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

What if the plane tried to take off in a hurricane force tailwind?

edit....on a short runway.

The force against the propellers would go up considerably.

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Pretzel Super Member

Pretzel

What if the plane tried to take off in a hurricane force tailwind?

edit....on a short runway.

My guess is that the plane would be thrown about like a ragdoll and smashed by the wind. Below is a video of a landing in minor wind compared to "hurricane force" winds.

 

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natureboy Great Member

natureboy

(edited)

My guess is that the plane would be thrown about like a ragdoll and smashed by the wind. Below is a video of a landing in minor wind compared to "hurricane force" winds.

Excellent 'real world' point. I can only imagine the terror of being in that passenger cabin as is slewed left and back. Chilling good / lucky save by the pilot. Why land at all - low fuel?

Edited by natureboy

Kevin


Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

The force against the propellers would go up considerably.

My guess is that the plane would be thrown about like a ragdoll and smashed by the wind. Below is a video of a landing in minor wind compared to "hurricane force" winds.

 

Yup, considerably. . .:-D

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"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

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