X handicap = ? putts per round

[bjwestner]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

To me, the important stats to keep are:

1) % of fairways hit

2) GIR %

3) Up-and-down % (30 yards and in, since that is what PGA Tour uses)

4) Putts per GIR

The reason I think these are the important ones is that they measure each part of your game - your driving, your approach shots, your short game and your putting. There is overlap (a great putting day will also show as a good up-and-down %) but it's a good starting point.

15 handicap is the time to start tracking your game. You're consistent enough that these stats start to matter.

Thanks Harmonious, I like that, each segment of the game is measured by using those four stats.....

I know that I average 5-6 FIR and that number continues to go up as I am getting better and better at driving the ball.  My GIR% is low, around 4 per round in good weather conditions.  I obviously have a long way to go on getting up and down consistently, everywhere around the green, not just within 30 yards.  As for my putts per GIR, I have no data but thinking back on it I think that I usually convert at least par when I am GIR.  Thus I think my average for this stat now must be closer to 1.5 than it is to 2.0.

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that the most important stat in all of golf is GIR?  If your GIR % is way up there then you are scoring really well I would think......

With that in mind, my goal for 2013 is to be a single digit handicapper by July 4, 2013.  I know it's agressive but I'm going to do it.  How many GIR per round would you estimate is needed for a 10 handicap?  I think I saw that Bubba Watson led the PGA tour last year at just under 70%.  That is between 12 and 13 GIR per round.

[bjwestner]

Just found this:

http://www.golfeneur.com/key-golf-stats-what-do-your-numbers-tell-you/

It gives Tiger's stats from 2001.  He hit 14 GIR per round!

[saevel25]

Here is another way to look at it,

Pro's average 12 GIR's per round in 2012

Pro's three putt only 3.3% of the time

Pro's Scrambling is 57.5% of the time, or 42.5% chance of making bogey or worse

So which is better, having a professional short game, which saves you par half the time, or a being able to two putt 96.7% of the time. Its much harder to bogey a hole if you hit a GIR, the stats are clear as day for professionals. If they hit a GIR, there looking at making par 96.7% of the time. If they miss the green, they only make par 57.5% of the time. That's 39% difference right there.

For Dave Pelz, his statistics show on three putting,

Pro: 3.3%

scratch: 12.4%

10 HDCP: 14%

20 HDCP: 16.8%

But even on that stand point, If your a 10 HDCP and if you had a professional short game, your looking at a difference of 28.5% better chance of making par if you hit a green in regulation.

Even if you have the tour's best short game, around 70% of the time, your still looking at a 16% better chance of making par for hitting a GIR.

So look at Tiger, if he hit 2 more greens in regulation, With his short game at the time, being near the best. Were looking at him still, having a near 27% better chance at making par, meaning he has a cumulative 54% better chance at making pars on those two holes than the competition, just from hitting the GIR.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by saevel25

So which is better, having a professional short game, which saves you par half the time, or a being able to two putt 96.7% of the time. Its much harder to bogey a hole if you hit a GIR, the stats are clear as day for professionals. If they hit a GIR, there looking at making par or better 96.7% of the time. If they miss the green, they only make par or better 57.5% of the time. That's 39% difference right there.

FTFY :)

[dsc123]

Just found this: [URL=http://www.golfeneur.com/key-golf-stats-what-do-your-numbers-tell-you/]http://www.golfeneur.com/key-golf-stats-what-do-your-numbers-tell-you/[/URL] It gives Tiger's stats from 2001.  He hit 14 GIR per round!

good link, thanks

[bjwestner]

I shot 86 over the weekend.  Had 35 putts though.  Only 4GIR and 6FIR.  That comes out to a 13.6 handicap rating for the round but with 35 putts.  I guess I'm worse at putting then I previously had thought.....

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by bjwestner

I shot 86 over the weekend.  Had 35 putts though.  Only 4GIR and 6FIR.  That comes out to a 13.6 handicap rating for the round but with 35 putts.  I guess I'm worse at putting then I previously had thought.....

I know what you mean, I'm worse and getting worser.  Shot an 84 yesterday, with 39 putts.  50% GIR, 54% FIR, I was really striking the ball great.  I would have broken 80 if I didn't 3-putt.  Nothing more frustrating that on in regulation, then 3putt bogey.  Did that 4 times.  So a HC rating of about 13.5 for the round, while putting like a 30 HC.

[bjwestner]

Originally Posted by dsc123

I know what you mean, I'm worse and getting worser.  Shot an 84 yesterday, with 39 putts.  50% GIR, 54% FIR, I was really striking the ball great.  I would have broken 80 if I didn't 3-putt.  Nothing more frustrating that on in regulation, then 3putt bogey.  Did that 4 times.  So a HC rating of about 13.5 for the round, while putting like a 30 HC.

Where did you play?  It looks like you had a really good ballstriking day!  I would kill for 50% GIR!  I think I'm actually lucky to have my hc where it is as I only average about 4 GIR per round or so.

Part of the problem is that I think the distance I am playing from at my club is a bit too far for me. At Montgomery Country Club, the white tees are 6333 yards and it's a pretty tough course I think.  The slope rating is 127 on the white tees.  When I play Needwood now for example, even playing from the far back tees at Needwood, it seem so much easier to me now.  I'm not knocking the county municipal courses as I think the county does a great job keeping them in really good shape, it's just that compared to my club, they are much easier.  Needwood I think only has a 119 slope, Falls Road is even less with a 116 and Laytonsville is somewhere around 121 or so.

I feel your pain on the 3 putt bogeys.....I had two of them on par 3's where I was on the GIR and three putted for bogeys.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by bjwestner

Where did you play?  It looks like you had a really good ballstriking day!  I would kill for 50% GIR!  I think I'm actually lucky to have my hc where it is as I only average about 4 GIR per round or so.

Part of the problem is that I think the distance I am playing from at my club is a bit too far for me. At Montgomery Country Club, the white tees are 6333 yards and it's a pretty tough course I think.  The slope rating is 127 on the white tees.  When I play Needwood now for example, even playing from the far back tees at Needwood, it seem so much easier to me now.  I'm not knocking the county municipal courses as I think the county does a great job keeping them in really good shape, it's just that compared to my club, they are much easier.  Needwood I think only has a 119 slope, Falls Road is even less with a 116 and Laytonsville is somewhere around 121 or so.

I feel your pain on the 3 putt bogeys.....I had two of them on par 3's where I was on the GIR and three putted for bogeys.

That's probably the most GIR I've ever had.  In 2012 I averaged 30% GIR and 40% FIR.

I played at Redgate in Rockville.  I played from the gold tees which are about 6000, par 71, 68.9/126.  I prefer the blacks, but typically play whatever tees rest of the group uses.  The distance is deceiving though, there are three holes that are very steep uphill and two par 5's that take driver out of your hand and force you to play 3 good shots into the green.

I always play needwood from the blues, the whites are really short.  I like laytonsville, but that's really short too.  Northwest is longer, and the only par 72.  That's probably my favorite of the county courses, though the layout isn't as interesting.

How far do you hit your driver?  I'm around 260-275 when I'm hitting it well.  I look for tees around 6500-6800 yards.

[bjwestner]

Originally Posted by dsc123

That's probably the most GIR I've ever had.  In 2012 I averaged 30% GIR and 40% FIR.

I played at Redgate in Rockville.  I played from the gold tees which are about 6000, par 71, 68.9/126.  I prefer the blacks, but typically play whatever tees rest of the group uses.  The distance is deceiving though, there are three holes that are very steep uphill and two par 5's that take driver out of your hand and force you to play 3 good shots into the green.

I always play needwood from the blues, the whites are really short.  I like laytonsville, but that's really short too.  Northwest is longer, and the only par 72.  That's probably my favorite of the county courses, though the layout isn't as interesting.

How far do you hit your driver?  I'm around 260-275 when I'm hitting it well.  I look for tees around 6500-6800 yards.

I average the same with my driver when I am hitting it well, about 270 or so.  Depending on the hole though (#4 at my club is downhill with lots of roll out), I have hit it up to 300.  In the winter time though I've noticed that I've lost distance with the driver.  If I had to guess, I'd say I'm averaging 230 ish with the driver, on average lately.

Outside of my driver, I do not hit my clubs very long though and that's why 6333 yards is a lot for me sometimes.  My three wood off the tee can go 210 in this weather.  Off the deck I hit it about 200 in the winter.  During the summer I imagine that I will hit it further.  Last summer I was still learning how to hit it and so I never got a good gauge on how far I could hit it when it is warm out.  It's also a relatively new club that I got a month ago as I upgraded my 3W.

My 3H goes 180 - 200 and my 4H goes 170 - 190.  My 5i in this cold weather will go 175 max.

I am also in the process of tweaking my swing in that I am turning my shoulders and hips which I did not do much at all before.  I've already noticed a bit of an increase and I've been working on it for just a few weeks.  Hopefully by the summer time I will have improved and that combined with the warmer weather will allow me to play from further tees and longer courses.  I don't want to be a "wuss" and play from too close but at the same time I would rather play from shorter tees and score much better than play from too long and shoot a bad score.

[Rip24]

Originally Posted by gwlee7

I apologize for the mistake. It was 25 putts that day. I had a lot of one putt bogies and chipped the ball close all day. When you miss as many greens as I do, you get a lot of practice.

I also have to call you out on the 37 putts and shooting 73!!  Really?  you shot 1 over with 37 putts?   So like you hit ever green and two putted ever hole except for one three putt?    You just said you miss alot of greens but i dont see any other way its possible shoot 1 over with THIRTY SEVEN putts....

[gwlee7]

Fair enough but you don't have to yell.  I misspoke twice in one post.  Math is hard.

[Mac62]

Originally Posted by dsc123

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjwestner

I shot 86 over the weekend.  Had 35 putts though.  Only 4GIR and 6FIR.  That comes out to a 13.6 handicap rating for the round but with 35 putts.  I guess I'm worse at putting then I previously had thought.....

I know what you mean, I'm worse and getting worser.  Shot an 84 yesterday, with 39 putts.  50% GIR, 54% FIR, I was really striking the ball great.  I would have broken 80 if I didn't 3-putt.  Nothing more frustrating that on in regulation, then 3putt bogey.  Did that 4 times.  So a HC rating of about 13.5 for the round, while putting like a 30 HC.

IMO, looking at any one statistic can be misleading as it doesn't tell the whole story.  I had 38 putts and 54% FIR today (almost identical to you so far)...but only 22% GIR (sucks compared to you), and I shot a 93.  If we just looked at putts or FIR it looks pretty even, although your handicap is over twice as low as mine - but if we isolated our GIR stats, there's a huge difference.

I think it's difficult to correlate any one statistic (and especially putting) to a HCP/range.  Low 'cappers usually have everything working reasonably well, while high handicappers can have different weaknesses.  A 1.4 or 1.5 putting average can look pretty good until you look at FIR/GIR and realize that all those putts are for double bogey because they can't keep a ball in play and/or only hit 20% GIR.

[saevel25]

I have to agree, but even if you average 2 putts per hole, which is 36 putts, you can still end up shooting even par if you hit every green. GIR's is the most important stat in my opinion because it will dictate the level at which your scoring will be on that hole. It goes back to the discussion on what you should practice, because your odds of scoring increase dramtically no matter how much you practice your short game. Very few golfers have succeeded on the tour with shortgame alone.

Yes, golf is a cummulative game, and you need to look at all the pieces. I've had rounds were i hit 12+ GIR's and shot in the mid 80's and broken 80 with hitting only a few greens. Depends on how my short game is. Also a good short game will naturally lower your putting stat as well, tap ins are nice. But once again, your taping in for par, not putting for birdie.

[JoeB34]

How about this? Ignore the red circles... That's just me!

[saevel25]

Birides and Pars are kinda redudant since they are the determinant for your score. Though i will actually say that pitch/chip/sand are all determined by GIR's anways, so that cross correlation is there.

[Will1993]

Well I just started playing golf with about 12 rounds last year. This year I decided that I had a good enough swing and athletic ability to try and pursue becoming a scratch golfer as fast as possible. So after hours at the range whacking golf balls and getting feel for chips and bunker shots I went out to play some rounds. First round 85 with 36 putts and second round 85 with 42! putts, I had three 4 putts and never faced a putt outside of 40 feet! so I guess I know where I need to put time in now.

[johnno]

I play off 28 and had 36 putts today - my best is around 32, can't remember my worst number, but would be disappointed to be over 40

One big difference with the low h'cappers is that they put their chips and pitches a lot closer more consistently than hackers - apart from their being better putters too.