What do all good ball strikers have in common when they look so different?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

That's easy:

1) If your head remains relatively steady, you're going to have a hard time getting your weight outside your feet. You'd have to...

2) If you shift your hips SO MUCH (or setup in a horrible position) that your weight gets outside your feet, then you're going to have trouble with Key #2.

But we never see #2 - Sergio and Monty slide their hips back, but their weight never really gets outside of their feet. They get a little more pressure into their back foot than someone who keeps his hips relatively centered, but that's fine too. Monty and Sergio have the 5SK as well.

Just to add, each Key is suppose to be measurable, achievable and relatively simple for the average guy to identify and understand.  I agree that how the pressure moves in your feet is important and can effect the head, but I can translate my head and still not have my weight move to the outside of my foot.  Like Erik said, would be tough to keep the head steady and have the weight move to the outside.  Then there's the educational aspect, imo  the head movement is easier for the average guy to spot than what part of the foot the pressure or weight is located.  Remember there are A LOT of golfers that think impact looks very much like your address position.

Even though Key #1 is Steady Head, when we teach it we don't just say, "Don't move your head", we usually share a few feels that "knock on" effects to keep the head steady.  The feels may have you focus on your hips, shoulder(s), knee(s), arms, where the eyes are focused, feeling the pressure in your feet, etc.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Even though Key #1 is Steady Head, when we teach it we don't just say, "Don't move your head", we usually share a few feels that "knock on" effects to keep the head steady.  The feels may have you focus on your hips, shoulder(s), knee(s), arms, where the eyes are focused, feeling the pressure in your feet, etc.

Precisely. The Keys are not "swing thoughts." But you knew that, Harmonious. You worked on Key #4 when you took your lesson with us last year, as well as a little #1/#2/#3 because they affected #4 for you (path too far right, leading to blocks and over-draws).

[mvmac]

Yeah Harmonious definitely knows that but want to make sure for everyone else lol

[Harmonious]

To me, it's kind of a chicken vs egg thing.  Does the steady head help keep one centered (with weight on the inside of the back foot) or, more precisely, does keeping the weight centered to the inside of the feet, as Hogan recommended, lead to a steadier head.  I suppose the answer to both questions is yes.

Regardless of whether it is included as a "key" in the 5SK instruction package, the ability to keep from swaying to the outside of the back foot definitely leads to better ball striking.

[logman]

Originally Posted by colin007

bro, look at all of them at impact and tell us they dont have their weight forward, with a flat left wrist, and are hitting down (forward leaning shaft) with irons...etc...if you dont do these things then you are making the game so much harder for yourself.  if you dont do these things then there are BAD things in your swing.

Hi colin, I think I've managed to confuse 2 topics into one here. My mentioning all those great golfers with those unusual swings was to try to point out that they pretty much all get to a spot where they can hit the ball like the champs they are. Inspite of Seniors head lifting, Parry's strange casting, Bubbas leaping in the air, Darcy's......well everything!!, and that kid with the orange clothes. What has happened before contact,(and there's alot) doesn't appear to be too much of a problem when they get to contact. Can you imagine anyone of those players posting a "my swing " on here. Ha HA,.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

To me, it's kind of a chicken vs egg thing.  Does the steady head help keep one centered (with weight on the inside of the back foot) or, more precisely, does keeping the weight centered to the inside of the feet, as Hogan recommended, lead to a steadier head.  I suppose the answer to both questions is yes.

Regardless of whether it is included as a "key" in the 5SK instruction package, the ability to keep from swaying to the outside of the back foot definitely leads to better ball striking.

Yes it does, and the answer to both questions is indeed "yes." :) You are correct. But you knew that too. :D

Originally Posted by logman

Inspite of Seniors head lifting, Parry's strange casting, Bubbas leaping in the air, Darcy's......well everything!!, and that kid with the orange clothes. What has happened before contact,(and there's alot) doesn't appear to be too much of a problem when they get to contact. Can you imagine anyone of those players posting a "my swing " on here. Ha HA,.

My patience has been exhausted. Logman, you're now restricted from this thread. I'm tired of having to constantly defend a position against someone who so frequently speaks from a position of ignorance. Despite multiple attempts to engage you in meaningful conversation, you simply continue to shy away or out and out flaunt your ignorance. I've grown tired of it, and perhaps restricting you from this thread reveals a flaw in my character, but at this point I'm inclined to believe that most others would do the same.

All of the golfers you listed have all five keys, and you didn't make the slightest effort to respond to any of the substance I posted. And really, we're just re-hashing the same crap we've been rehashing. A key does not fail to be a key because: a) you misunderstand what it is, or b) you declare it not to be without any evidence, facts, measurements, studies, etc.

I take what's posted here seriously, and I meant what I said above about how I love when people disagree if they have any substance behind their position at all. Consistently, you do not.

[Jhwarren]

Logman,

I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish here. I think what you are saying is (please correct me if i am wrong) because a handful of players in the history of the game of golf have had success with very unconventional swings, there is no point to any player seeking to get better through instruction. You seem to say, "do what you do and just ingrain it until you are the best player that you can naturally be." While I would agree with you that different people have different body types and, thus, should have different instruction, I do think that most, if not all, can benefit from instruction. Obviously if Rickie Fowler or Bubba Watson posted a swing on "Member Swings," there would not be a whole lot of criticism. But when a 20 handicap posts a video, he is seeking some help. Should everyone receive the same help? No. That's why the template at the top of the thread is so important. There the golfer can indicate their normal ball flight and shot that they would like to eliminate. For example, does every player need to work on keeping their head steadier? Of course not. But a golfer who indicates he hits most of his shots fat and moves 8 inches off the ball in his backswing, may want to look into it.

My point is that I completely disagree with the notion "you are what you are." Every skill we possess is learned, good and bad. Therefore, through practice and repetition anyone can learn new skills and get better at any activity. But you have to be practicing and repeating the correct motions.

[Jhwarren]

Hahahaha didn't see you had restricted him. Sorry to egg him on.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Jhwarren

I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish here. I think what you are saying is (please correct me if i am wrong) because a handful of players in the history of the game of golf have had success with very unconventional swings, there is no point to any player seeking to get better through instruction. You seem to say, "do what you do and just ingrain it until you are the best player that you can naturally be." While I would agree with you that different people have different body types and, thus, should have different instruction, I do think that most, if not all, can benefit from instruction. Obviously if Rickie Fowler or Bubba Watson posted a swing on "Member Swings," there would not be a whole lot of criticism. But when a 20 handicap posts a video, he is seeking some help. Should everyone receive the same help? No. That's why the template at the top of the thread is so important. There the golfer can indicate their normal ball flight and shot that they would like to eliminate. For example, does every player need to work on keeping their head steadier? Of course not. But a golfer who indicates he hits most of his shots fat and moves 8 inches off the ball in his backswing, may want to look into it.

My point is that I completely disagree with the notion "you are what you are." Every skill we possess is learned, good and bad. Therefore, through practice and repetition anyone can learn new skills and get better at any activity. But you have to be practicing and repeating the correct motions.

I think you bring up some good points, and regardless of who you were talking to it's good content for this thread.  The funny thing is we use Bubba and Rickie's swings to illustrate certain points or feels about the golf swing, all of them positive.  We'll say "Rickie Fowler" to people that get the club head too low in at A2, might use Bubba to show the knee linkage allows you to make a bigger hip or as an example of not "restricting" the hips on the backswing.

If Bubba or Rickie did post in "Member Swings" or came to me for a lesson, I'd be crazy to work on any mechanics with them.  The only thing I would do is ask them questions and do Key#5 education/maintenance.  I can't imagine why but if they ever did want to look at video, I'd just show them video of themselves in tournaments hitting it well.  Not going to be the same instruction as someone who hits every other shot fat or thin.  Then you have to do some mechanics work.

On a side note I thinks that's where Duval got off track.  Trying to fix his A4 position to get it perfect.  Not understanding why that A4 worked for him with his grip and downswing.  Those guys do well with Keys 1-3, can sometimes get off with 4 and 5.

[colin007]

Not going to be the same instruction as someone who hits every other shot fat or thin.

Hey, you talkin' bout me?!