So... what exactly am I good at?

[ILLZ]

I'm trying to examine my game in relation to other 19 handicappers. My handicap tracking site places me in a percentile among other 19's in terms of fairways hit, GIR, and total putts. Here are my stats:

FW hit: 36%
GIR: 56%
Putts/hole: 36%

What I can take from those stats is that I'm good with my mid-short irons because my GIR are slightly above average despite being below average in fairways hit. I know I'm very good at pitching and chipping, and I operated under the notion that my good chipping is where I made up ground considering those stats. But recently I realized that if I'm such a good chipper, then my putting stats should be a reflection of that, no? Perhaps I'm such a horrendous putter that my excellent chipping allows me to move from TERRIBLE to just BAD. Any thoughts on any of this? Thanks in advance guys.

[iacas]

I'm trying to examine my game in relation to other 19 handicappers. My handicap tracking site places me in a percentile among other 19's in terms of fairways hit, GIR, and total putts. Here are my stats:

I don't know many 19 handicappers who hit 10 GIR per round. That seems awfully high to me.

Your short game must be terrible, because if you hit 10 GIR per round and two-putt those, that's 10 pars. How you get +19 or so on the other 8 holes is beyond me.

[niblick]

I don't know many 19 handicappers who hit 10 GIR per round. That seems awfully high to me.

Reread the post. He ranks in the 56th percentile among other 19 handicappers. That doesn't mean he hits 56% of his greens in regulation.

[lamebums]

I'm trying to examine my game in relation to other 19 handicappers. My handicap tracking site places me in a percentile among other 19's in terms of fairways hit, GIR, and total putts. Here are my stats:

Accuracy off the tee and putting are your problems. I'd wager you have good iron play since you hit a lot more greens than fairways, relatively speaking. If you're getting a lot of chips close, then maybe it's putts for greens in regulation (which tend to be more, since a shot from 150 yards is less accurate than a chip from 20, generally speaking).

[doublesuited77]

you need a stat for par saves. For a 19 handicap, thay is usually what stops you for getting to single digits.

[iacas]

Reread the post. He ranks in the 56th percentile among other 19 handicappers. That doesn't mean he hits 56% of his greens in regulation.

Then those "stats" aren't worth much. Who cares what percentile you're in - how about some actual statistics? I don't know how many fairways or greens the average 19 handicapper hits, nor how bad they are at the fringes, so percentiles don't help.

I thought for a moment that might be what "stats" he was referring to, but percentiles aren't really stats - how many greens or fairways you hit are "stats." It was, at best, 50/50 so I assumed that he meant it the way that makes more sense. We're all just guessing until he gives us a real idea what his game is like. Otherwise, only general advice like "improve your short game" or "better course management will help" is all we can provide.

[Shindig]

I'm trying to examine my game in relation to other 19 handicappers. My handicap tracking site places me in a percentile among other 19's in terms of fairways hit, GIR, and total putts. Here are my stats:

I'm a great chipper and was a terrible putter. I've chipped it close and then 2- putted, without the second necessarily being a tap-in. How sad for me! Golf Digest is reorganizing their webpage, and so my old links don't work. They used to have an article up there about what the average # greens hit etc for various handicap levels was, and that might be a good thing to compare to. The percentiles aren't worth anything; it's just a reflection of where people spent their time, not what's going to improve your game. I would take a cue from the Golf Digest challenge, and track your "long game handicap" and "short game handicap" - see how many long game shots and short game shots you take each round, and use this to see where you need to practice. Oh, and work on your putting. I don't care what your handicap is, time spent putting will improve your scores, or at least help your next drive by having a good feeling after sinking a nice putt

[ILLZ]

Thanks everybody for the replies.

Then those "stats" aren't worth much. Who cares what percentile you're in - how about some actual statistics? I don't know how many fairways or greens the average 19 handicapper hits, nor how bad they are at the fringes, so percentiles don't help.

My actual stats as follows:

Fairways hit - 5.7 Greens % - 24% Putts/hole - 2.03 I don't really see your point about stats being stats, or whatever. By giving you the percentiles, it tells you how I play in relation to other golfers of my ability. If I gave you my raw stats, you'd say, "yeah, you need to improve driving and putting it looks like because those stats are low". How does me giving the percentiles instead change that? I know I need to improve every aspect of my game... hell, I'm a 19. I suck. I'm merely trying to figure out what I do BETTER than other 19's, considering my putting, driving, and greens % don't seem to be drastically superior.

Accuracy off the tee and putting are your problems. I'd wager you have good iron play since you hit a lot more greens than fairways, relatively speaking. If you're getting a lot of chips close, then maybe it's putts for greens in regulation (which tend to be more, since a shot from 150 yards is less accurate than a chip from 20, generally speaking).

This is very helpful, and I think you're right. It must be long putts specifically that kill me. I must 3-putt from distance a HELL of alot. I'm going to start tracking my putting when I hit a GIR.

[lamebums]

Three-putting a GIR, while incredibly annoying, isn't nearly as bad as missing the green and then three-putting, because the former is a bogey at worst, whilst the latter means plenty of 6's and 7's on your score card.

Try to chip it close enough to one-putt every time. No better way to save strokes than that, I've found.

On short putts, take a short backswing (two or three inches at most) and accelerate through the ball. Overnight, the putter went from the bane of my game to absolute money within five feet. (My lag putting still sucks, though).

[Shindig]

My actual stats as follows:

4+ GIR/round is pretty good. But you're hitting more fairways than that. So, I'm curious: how do you play your par-5s?

I realize it is an odd question coming from someone with a 30+ handicap, but I've been saving serious strokes on the par-5s lately. Make a commitment to yourself to never go for it in 2, but instead to lay up to your favorite club range. There has to be some (club, distance) pair such that you're confident hitting into a green, and on a par-5, you can sometimes have that pair for GIR, if you play your first two shots right. As for putting... 2.03 putts per hole isn't great. I set a goal of having a round with 34 putts. Now, on one hand, it's easy enough to achieve that: purposefully miss each green, then chip close. But try to achieve that without doing that: focus on your putts instead. Your long-term goal is probably lower than 34 putts/round, but I seem to think it's a nice number to go for.

I'm merely trying to figure out what I do BETTER than other 19's, considering my putting, driving, and greens % don't seem to be drastically superior.

No, but you don't know where most people in that range stand. Some could be excellent with their driver and terrible with the other 13 clubs in their bag. How often do you see someone hitting

only driver on the range? Or they could be excellent putters and terrible on all other things.

This is very helpful, and I think you're right. It must be long putts specifically that kill me. I must 3-putt from distance a HELL of alot. I'm going to start tracking my putting when I hit a GIR.

Different people have different tricks for the long putts. I'm a big fan of the manhole trick; when I do it right (not as often as I'd like), I tend to avoid a 3-putt. I envision a manhole centered at the hole, and try to put my putt into that. It eases the pressure of a tiny target and leaves you close enough to knock one in. I mess this one up the most by forgetting to read the break on the short one, and then hitting it soft.

In short, I don't understand why your goal is to see how you compare to other 19-handicappers.

[ILLZ]

4+ GIR/round is pretty good. But you're hitting more fairways than that. So, I'm curious: how do you play your par-5s?

On par 5's I do generally do that. If the fairway is tight I'll hit hybrid-hybrid-short iron.... if it's not too tight I WILL hit driver... then hybrid and usually a half wedge or something similar. That's of course a perfect scenario. After reading all of this, I think my GIR is pretty impressive especially considering how short I am. Distance is a huge problem that I'm going to address once I get more consistent. A drive hit right on the screws will go about 250-260, and a 6 iron hit perfect will go about 160. That's pretty short I think. There are plenty of times on par 4's when I'll hit a good (not great) drive, and still be a 4-iron out, or worse.

As for my goal with this post... I'm not sure really... I know the better idea is to find out what you're NOT good at instead of vice versa, but I just need a little positive reinforcement sometimes I guess.

[Thrdroc]

My actual stats as follows:

Well with numbers like you provided above, people on the site can actually give you input on where you should start with improving your game. We can't actually tell you what you need to improve or where you should start when your stats just say where you rank with all other 19 handicaps. I don't really understand why you are comparing yourself to other like handicaps though, I know I don't really want to see where I would compare with other handicaps like mine. I want to see what I can improve to get my handicap down.

[ILLZ]

Well with numbers like you provided above, people on the site can actually give you input on where you should start with improving your game. We can't actually tell you what you need to improve or where you should start when your stats just say where you rank with all other 19 handicaps. I don't really understand why you are comparing yourself to other like handicaps though, I know I don't really want to see where I would compare with other handicaps like mine. I want to see what I can improve to get my handicap down.

Well I understand that... but like I said, I'm a 19, I suck, I have to improve EVERYTHING. If I'm in the 36th percentile in driving accuracy among 19's, then that obviously means I'm even below average compared to 19's, which means I'm REALLY lagging in that department. I think it's just as useful a measure. How is your analysis of my game different based on the two? A scratch golfer can look at my GIR and putting numbers, and say "yeah you need to hit more than 24% of your greens and that 2.03 putts per hole has to come down". Well, that's something I obviously knew because I'm a 19. I feel like this type of analysis based on the perecentiles gives reference to otherwise somewhat abstract numbers.

[Thrdroc]

Well I understand that... but like I said, I'm a 19, I suck, I have to improve EVERYTHING. If I'm in the 36th percentile in driving accuracy among 19's, then that obviously means I'm even below average compared to 19's, which means I'm REALLY lagging in that department. I think it's just as useful a measure. How is your analysis of my game different based on the two? A scratch golfer can look at my GIR and putting numbers, and say "yeah you need to hit more than 24% of your greens and that 2.03 putts per hole has to come down". Well, that's something I obviously knew because I'm a 19. I feel like this type of analysis based on the perecentiles gives reference to otherwise somewhat abstract numbers.

Well the reason I really wouldn't look at the percentiles of certain handicap groups is because say you hit 24% of GIR's for your handicap and you improve that by say 5-10%, in all reality you are not going to be the same handicap for long. Also say your GIRs goes up 10% then your Fairways hit goes down 10% via comparing yourself with that method its not as valuable. That 10% change for both could be only a 0.5 increase and decrease for both. If you really want to improve your game by tracking your numbers, take those raw numbers you get like how many greens you hit and your fairways hit and key for our level of handicap is scrambling and watch them over time. After 10 or so rounds you can really see what you need to improve.

[$2 Nassau]

On par 5's I do generally do that. If the fairway is tight I'll hit hybrid-hybrid-short iron.... if it's not too tight I WILL hit driver... then hybrid and usually a half wedge or something similar. That's of course a perfect scenario. After reading all of this, I think my GIR is pretty impressive especially considering how short I am. Distance is a huge problem that I'm going to address once I get more consistent. A drive hit right on the screws will go about 250-260, and a 6 iron hit perfect will go about 160. That's pretty short I think. There are plenty of times on par 4's when I'll hit a good (not great) drive, and still be a 4-iron out, or worse.

In my opinion, 250-260 off the tee and 160 6-iron really isn't that short. Don't get caught up on pga distances you see on TV. Most people are b.s. when they tell you their distances anyway.

If you are a fantastic chipper as you mention and STILL average over 2 putts a hole, it's your putting that's the problem. I'd worry about that rather than distance.

[$2 Nassau]

Thrdroc If you really want to improve your game by tracking your numbers, take those raw numbers you get like how many greens you hit and your fairways hit and key for our level of handicap is scrambling and watch them over time. After 10 or so rounds you can really see what you need to improve.

Thrdroc nails it. At our level of handicaps, scrambling (read: short game) is where we will save strokes and improve.

My father-in-law, a 61 year old 8 handicapper is a fantastic scrambler. He hits plenty of greens, but misses plenty too, he also hits some bad drives. But he's always getting himself into position for a par putt because of his tremendous scrambling. It's how he got to be an 8 handicap. He hits the ball around 260 off the tee, MAX. Maybe 150 with 7iron, MAX. I like to think I have a good short game too, then I play with my father-in-law and realize I'm wrong.

[conceptDawg]

My actual stats as follows:

Just using these numbers, here's what I get out of them:

You say that you are a good chipper but the stats don't really show that. You are hitting only a quarter of the greens in regulation, which means that you probably have chip/pitch opportunities on 75% of the holes (if you are missing 75% of the greens, then you should be at least getting within 100yds on your approaches, if not then you need to work on your approach game...but I'm guessing that is not the problem). Now, if you have a short chip 14 times then you should be able to get within 1 putt range a quarter of that time, the rest should definitely be 2 putters if you are a decent chipper. That's 3-5 strokes picked up on the 1 putts. Unless you are doing a LOT of 3 putting on the other 12 holes (and you shouldn't be if you are a good chipper since you are chipping 75% of the time) then you should have a putting stat below 2.0. Removing 3 putts is another thing. But painfully obvious to all of us that play this damn game. Obviously you need to hit more fairways....but who doesn't, regardless of handicap. You are hitting 5.7% fairways but that doesn't let me know if you are taking a penalty on 50% of the 95% that you miss because you miss in the trees. If that is the case then you can (theoretically) pick up 6-8 strokes a round just by getting rid of the penalties by keeping it out of the forest off the tee. If you have to tee off with a different club then do so until you can hit your driver consistently (but continue to practice with the driver...don't just give up on it). You may feel like a wimp, but your score will thank you. That brings us to the mid iron/approaches.... It's hard to get good stats on your mid/approach game because you can't really tell from stats what kind of shots you are left with. Are you only hitting 25% GIR because you are left with horrendous positioning due to the aforementioned tee shots? Again, if you are tossing it in the trees off the tee then you are taking away all hope of getting a GIR on that hole. Using the stats you provided it's hard to get a good handle on your mid game, other than to say that you are saving a few holes with this aspect of your game (your GIR is higher than fairways hit) so it is probably the better part of your game. Think about these things and decide for yourself where you could gain the most strokes. Then move to the next thing. None of the above information should actually be taken as correct in any way.

[WhiteSoxFan]

You are hitting 5.7% fairways

I think he means 5.7 fairways, not 5.7% of fairways. I.e. 5 or 6 out of 14 per round or more like 41%.