Mrs. Kanwars minimalist golf swing

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by logman

It might not be for you Gdaddy, but think of all those weekend warriors that play most of their golf out of the trees on the right hand side of the fairway. Just think of their enjoyment of the game if they could hit some fairways in regulation or hit a green with a 5 iron. Maybe if you wanted to move onto the conventional swing after that then cool.

What's wrong with conventional you ask.......Well, nothing if your good enough to use it, have the time to keep everything doing what it should be doing and then have the athletic ability to use it.My big gripe with the cocked wrist swing is you're asking beginners of all shapes,sizes,abilities,strength,flexibilities etc to play a swing method that not suited to their individual bodies

Anyway enough of that, I know Erik gets very pissed off  with me crapping on about this stuff so.......Mrs Kanwar anyone?

I can certainly appreciate the idea that weekend warriors who stink would love to be better.  The two biggest examples I know of that fit your criteria are my dad and father-in-law.  Both are lovers of the game and both have been playing for a long time, and both have pretty much stunk their entire lives.  My dad has never broken 90, and my father-in-law's best, I think, is something like 86.  Most of the time they are out there flailing away towards frustrating 102's and 106's.

But it's not because of "the conventional swing" that they have trouble ... it's because of " their swings" that they have trouble.  Any time they spent learning this goofiness would be better spent, in my opinion, learning the proper way to swing.  But it doesn't matter, because they aren't trying either.

Why? I don't know, but I think that apathy or lack of confidence, or whatever it is, is what's keeping the weekend warriors from getting better.  Not the too-difficult-to-learn "conventional swing."

[logman]

Gdaddy, Maybe next time you play with your Dad and father in law you introduce the MGS swing to them. Well not even the swing, just show them the set up, the left arm going straight up across the chest, no wrist cock, straight down....hit the ball. See if it works for them.

You say "proper" and "correct". I just don't think there is such a thing

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by logman

Geez Tristan, a bit harsh, did you read her biography and her quals. I'd say that was impressive.

Possibly harsh, but honest. MGS is not a good swing to make, however, if done right, the "conventional" swing is something that a beginner can do without many compensations. For that to  happen though they need to see an instructor that actually knows what they are talking about. If what I saw in the videos about MGS is the swing she teaches, than she is not one of those instructors. Period. At best she is teaching a swing that will have the golfer plateaued at a double bogey golfer with no room for improvement.

The idea of learning MGS and then moving to a conventional swing later, when they are "ready" for it, makes zero sense. Why would you learn a bogus swing only to have to basically unlearn it along with all of the bad habits it causes?

It seems like you think that the conventional swing is something that only tour pros can do correctly and that simply isn't the case. Anybody with normal physical abilities is capable of it, especially when working with a good instructor.

My honest opinion, is that you've found something that you like in LPG that kind of, sort of works for you and that's great. Yippie for you. You like that it's different and feel cool that it isn't a "conventional" swing, so you are trying to pump up other alternative swings. I haven't looked into LPG enough to really have an opinion on it, but this MGS is crap.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

Gdaddy, Maybe next time you play with your Dad and father in law you introduce the MGS swing to them. Well not even the swing, just show them the set up, the left arm going straight up across the chest, no wrist cock, straight down....hit the ball. See if it works for them.

Yeah, do that Drew! You don't really want to play with them anyway, right? This should take care of that little "problem" for you. :)

[mchepp]

but this MGS is crap.

Just playing devils advocate (I will not be swinging like this anytime soon) but what in the swing makes you think it will not work. Lets talk details.

[Golfingdad]

Yeah, do that Drew! You don't really want to play with them anyway, right? This should take care of that little "problem" for you. :)

Ha! Seriously ... They might both give up the game for good if I show them this swing!

[logman]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Ha! Seriously ... They might both give up the game for good if I show them this swing!

Yeah, right, cause they're enjoying they're game SO much at the moment...Yuk,Yuk,Yuk.

You guys are hilarious. You're so vehement in your beliefs.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by mchepp

Just playing devils advocate (I will not be swinging like this anytime soon) but what in the swing makes you think it will not work. Lets talk details.

Besides the really awkward looking set up, the fact that one of the videos says that it really can't be used on all swings and has to be adapted for unusual lies such as the rough (being in the rough is unusual?). On top of that, the fact that it seems to limit the progress to me. I can see somebody getting to the point with it where they can hack their way to a 105 with it but not be able to grow past that.

[Golfingdad]

Yeah, right, cause they're enjoying they're game SO much at the moment...Yuk,Yuk,Yuk. You guys are hilarious. You're so vehement in your beliefs.

Pot meet kettle. I'm not vehement about anything. In fact it's quite the opposite. I'm very open minded and if I'm given good reason to change, I will be happy to. Pretty sure Erik is the same way. (Read his swinging up on the driver thread if you don't believe that). But you aren't giving any reasons. Just a cruddy looking website with a lady putting people into setup positions that I think Charles Barkley would snicker at. And then? We question you and instead of any theory or reasoning as to why we should take this seriously, you just turn into passive aggressive name calling guy. Not flattering.

[tristanhilton85]

I applaud the idea of people trying to help beginners get better. This game needs to grow and to get people to come and stay they have to be able to get to a level where they feel like the don't absolutely suck. For beginners/high handicap players that actually want to improve, I'd suggest you check out this post:

thesandtrap.com/t/54665/great-golf-instruction-tips-videos-and-articles/36#post_800442

Really great information there that is well thought out and presented well. It gives a great understanding of what to do and WHY.

[mchepp]

Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

Besides the really awkward looking set up, the fact that one of the videos says that it really can't be used on all swings and has to be adapted for unusual lies such as the rough (being in the rough is unusual?). On top of that, the fact that it seems to limit the progress to me. I can see somebody getting to the point with it where they can hack their way to a 105 with it but not be able to grow past that.

To me, it looks like she built the swing around the imperative that she wants the golfer to hit the ball with an open face and an in to out path with the handle forward, absolutely nothing wrong with that. From there she presets the golfer with secondary axis tilt in the set up, in teaching my wife she really struggles with the concept of secondary axis tilt, so presetting my be a good way for women golfers, at least my wife to hit the ball. She also presets the shoulders closed which one would like for an in to out path. She also wants the right arm as straight as possible which is another version of extensor action.

There are definitely some things I do not like about the set-up and swing. I don't like moving a players head to a point where they are no longer looking at the ball. Usually one wants the eyes on the ball. If the golfer takes the arms straight back as she propose at some point the golfer is going to have to re-route the club to get it to come from the inside. From watching the videos of her golfers they usually accomplish this by early extension. She also seems to like the golfer to move the left shoulder over the right leg which means the pivot is not centered which could lead to inconsistent contact. I think this move is done because she thinks the head of the golfer needs to be back to hit a draw, I think she is mistaken there.

[Ernest Jones]

I believe this method can lead to hitting a lot of hole-in-fives, some of them will come on the par 3's but still very impressive. More seriously, I agree with others that it seems a little self-defeatist to embark in a method that puts a built in artificial cap on your potential. It is quite possible that this method will allow beginners to achieve a somewhat predictable ball flight but so would putting it around the course with your driver. I can't believe that you can generate any real power and distance with this technique therefor your ability to score is capped and to move beyond that plateau you would need to start all over again.

[logman]

I'm not really in a position to give you guys all the details of MGS. Just what everyone else can see on her website.

The highlights for me are the quiet body, the way her method eliminates casting by presetting the body turn, tilt and backlift plane , and the way the arm moves up and down with the chest as a guide( I reckon thats something all those slicers out there could use)

I also like the way she says wrist cock can be used but not excessively

I also just cant see how the barrage of negativity over 3 pages has any basis in it other than to be negative.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by logman

I'm not really in a position to give you guys all the details of MGS. Just what everyone else can see on her website.

The highlights for me are the quiet body, the way her method eliminates casting by presetting the body turn, tilt and backlift plane , and the way the arm moves up and down with the chest as a guide( I reckon thats something all those slicers out there could use)

I also like the way she says wrist cock can be used but not excessively

I also just cant see how the barrage of negativity over 3 pages has any basis in it other than to be negative.

You know ... if you were a site "supporter" you could change the 'posts per page' settings on your computer, that way all of the negativity could be confined to one page!

[logman]

So I put up my reasons for thinking that this swing could be a viable alternative and a couple of features of the swing that could help fix flaws in golfers swings and you come back with that....

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

So I put up my reasons for thinking that this swing could be a viable alternative and a couple of features of the swing that could help fix flaws in golfers swings and you come back with that....

Fine. Here:

Originally Posted by logman

The highlights for me are the quiet body

Your body is a big contributor to the power (clubhead speed). Removing it seems silly. And to be clear, when you say "quiet body," you mean she prescribes almost NO shoulder turn (torso turn) or hip turn.

Originally Posted by logman

the way her method eliminates casting by presetting the body turn, tilt and backlift plane

How does it eliminate casting? It doesn't. Her setup position is a recipe for casting.

Originally Posted by logman

and the way the arm moves up and down with the chest as a guide( I reckon thats something all those slicers out there could use)

Not one of the golfers we teach slice. ZERO. So there are clearly ways to accomplish this while still hitting the ball out of your shadow.

Originally Posted by logman

I also like the way she says wrist cock can be used but not excessively

Also a good source of clubhead speed and power.

At the end of the day, this swing appears to be drastically underpowered, conducive to hitting the ball fat, and not building a core set of skills that will allow you to advance.

[logman]

I think you're misrepresenting or misunderstanding. There's obviously shoulder turn ....note the set up position, shoulder turn, and tilt

How does it eliminate casting and slicing? by the arms dropping down first while the body stays turned closed to the target hence a shorter inside to out path

And yes the wrist is a source of power but it's also a source of inconsistency and maintainance. The wrist is an evil bastard

Power.... well you've made mention to me many times about the LPG/ bent arms swing that I've been trying to use. Absolutely no power at all to start with but up until I switched to right hand(to find more power)I was regularly hitting 250 meters with some out to 270. You've said no power often.

And Fat...I don't see that, shallow yes.

[logman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgtltP-Ky-Y

so here's a guy talking exactly about the differences in swing speed and the differences between full on conventional swing speed and MGS and the need to cock the wrists or not. and also about the anti slice part of things.

"meat and potatoes" haha!