tuffluck's Tough Love Ball Striking Thread

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by David in FL

You're confusing course handicap with the differential from a single round.  The course handicap is calculated by multiplying your handicap index (96% of your 10 lowest of your last 20 differentials) by the slope rating of the course in question, then dividing by 113.

In this particular case, if your handicap index were 17, the slope rating is 133, the result is:  (17.0 x 133) / 113 = 20.0

The individual course handicaps determine how many strokes are given or received in a net completion between players.  It's also the determining factor in identifying the maximum score that may be posted for handicap reporting purposes under equitable stroke control.

so you agree the differential is 15.7?

let's say i played that course 20 times and my best 10 scores were all 92, then wouldn't that mean my handicap index is 15.7 x 96%, or 15.1? that all assuming no consideration for ESC.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

so you agree the differential is 15.7?

let's say i played that course 20 times and my best 10 scores were all 92, then wouldn't that mean my handicap index is 15.7 x 96%, or 15.1? that all assuming no consideration for ESC.

Sounds correct to me.  It's not very common, though, that you see 17 cappers playing tees rated 73.5.  I don't know of a course around here that has a rating that high from anything other than the far back (7000+) tees.  (Other than one I played the other day with a par of 74 :))

Most courses I know discourage anybody other than low single digit guys from playing the way back 7000+ tees.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

so you agree the differential is 15.7?

let's say i played that course 20 times and my best 10 scores were all 92, then wouldn't that mean my handicap index is 15.7 x 96%, or 15.1? that all assuming no consideration for ESC.

Correct.

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Sounds correct to me.  It's not very common, though, that you see 17 cappers playing tees rated 73.5.  I don't know of a course around here that has a rating that high from anything other than the far back (7000+) tees.  (Other than one I played the other day with a par of 74 :))

Most courses I know discourage anybody other than low single digit guys from playing the way back 7000+ tees.

Originally Posted by David in FL

Correct.

okay.  that's all i meant when i said my handicap was not in the 20s earlier, and that it is entirely possible to have a non-20 handicap index and never shoot in the 80s.  apologies my terminology was wrong.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

understood that some people frown on it and assume you should play longer courses based on handicap level, but hell i'm the one paying the green fee and i'm not holding anyone up by doing it.

There is nothing wrong with this.

What courses do you play?  I'd like to see them. :)

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

okay.  that's all i meant when i said my handicap was not in the 20s earlier, and that it is entirely possible to have a non-20 handicap index and never shoot in the 80s.  apologies my terminology was wrong.

It's certainly possible, but it'd be very unusual.

Given that you don't maintain or track an honest, official handicap, I would consider it very unlikely too.

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by David in FL

It's certainly possible, but it'd be very unusual.

Given that you don't maintain or track an honest, official handicap, I would consider it very unlikely too.

unlikely?  it's a calculation that is the same across the board, so it seems pretty straightforward to me.  play a harder course, can afford a higher score for a teen handicap.  play an easier course, you need to shoot in the 80s to achieve the same result.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

unlikely?  it's a calculation that is the same across the board, so it seems pretty straightforward to me.  play a harder course, can afford a higher score for a teen handicap.  play an easier course, you need to shoot in the 80s to achieve the same result.

It's unlikely because if somebody is consistent enough to shoot a lot of 92's, the chances are that they would occasionally break 90.  That's all.  Most people are nowhere near that consistent.  Here's my current "10 best" in numerical order: 77,78,81,82,82,83,83,85,86,86.

I couldn't shoot the same score more than twice.

Anyways ... what courses are you playing?  I want to check them out! :)

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

It's unlikely because if somebody is consistent enough to shoot a lot of 92's, the chances are that they would occasionally break 90.  That's all.  Most people are nowhere near that consistent.  Here's my current "10 best" in numerical order: 77,78,81,82,82,83,83,85,86,86.

true, though technically i could shoot a 96 on the course in question for 10 rounds in a row, and still come in at a handicap index under 20.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

true, though technically i could shoot a 96 on the course in question for 10 rounds in a row, and still come in at a handicap index under 20.

What course???  (I'm just curious)

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

It's unlikely because if somebody is consistent enough to shoot a lot of 92's, the chances are that they would occasionally break 90.  That's all.  Most people are nowhere near that consistent.  Here's my current "10 best" in numerical order: 77,78,81,82,82,83,83,85,86,86.

I couldn't shoot the same score more than twice.

Anyways ... what courses are you playing?  I want to check them out! :)

^^^^^ This ^^^^^

It's also very unlikely that someone would average, over any real length of time, a score that is within a couple of strokes of his lifetime low.

By the way, I can show you courses the you could shoot over 100 on and still maintain an index well below 20.  Just because the math works, doesn't mean it's likely though.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by David in FL

It's also very unlikely that someone would average, over any real length of time, a score that is within a couple of strokes of his lifetime low.

Another good point.  Based on my own numbers, I would guess most people with handicaps above 5 or so would have much larger discrepancies between best and average.  Just of my last 20 scores, the difference between the best and the average is about 13 strokes.  Between that average and my all time best is 16.

I'm thinking the low handicap guys (under 5 or so) are a lot more consistently in the mid 70's, yet they're probably not shooting in the 60's much, so their dispersion is probably tighter.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Another good point.  Based on my own numbers, I would guess most people with handicaps above 5 or so would have much larger discrepancies between best and average.  Just of my last 20 scores, the difference between the best and the average is about 13 strokes.  Between that average and my all time best is 16.

I'm thinking the low handicap guys (under 5 or so) are a lot more consistently in the mid 70's, yet they're probably not shooting in the 60's much, so their dispersion is probably tighter.

My last 20 also have a spread of 13 strokes, from a low of 75 to a high of, ahem.........88.  Only 6 of the 20 are in the 70's at all.  Most are pretty tightly bunched around 80 though.  The 2 lows and the 2 highs are pretty non-standard.  The lows were due to my extraordinary skill and superior ball striking.  The highs were just bad luck.

[iacas]

tuffluck, again, we're all saying this because we're trying to help you. Seriously. The first step in fixing something is in realizing what you need to fix. It's what separates good instructors from great instructors and good from poor or average: prioritization.

Put simply (again, tough love): you're delusional.

I don't know of the last six handicapper I met who is a "good ball striker" let alone anyone over a 15 handicap (and all the talk about what your index really is should stop - who cares? You're roughly a bogey golfer - that's close enough.).

Shoot a video showing your swing with five golf balls in a line. Hit them with a 5-iron. Shoot one video face on and one down the line. Let's see your "ball striking" prowess.

I'm open to being shown I'm wrong - I just think there's only about a 0.001% chance of that happening here.

[14ledo81]

Tuffluck,

I would like to see this as well.  BTW I have seen Erik admit he was wrong (see the Jimbo Slice driving thread), and he was very gracious about it.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by iacas

tuffluck, again, we're all saying this because we're trying to help you. Seriously. The first step in fixing something is in realizing what you need to fix. It's what separates good instructors from great instructors and good from poor or average: prioritization.

Put simply (again, tough love): you're delusional.

I don't know of the last six handicapper I met who is a "good ball striker" let alone anyone over a 15 handicap (and all the talk about what your index really is should stop - who cares? You're roughly a bogey golfer - that's close enough.).

Shoot a video showing your swing with five golf balls in a line. Hit them with a 5-iron. Shoot one video face on and one down the line. Let's see your "ball striking" prowess.

I'm open to being shown I'm wrong - I just think there's only about a 0.001% chance of that happening here.

I am a 4.5 and I am a pretty bad ball striker.  I don't generally hit it fat or thin, but I have no idea where I will hit it on the face with my irons I have little confidence I will hit a green.  Simply put I suck at it.  The only difference is I don't generally take penalty strokes.  Most single digit HCers I see are bad ball strikers IMO.

[David in FL]

I am a 4.5 and I am a pretty bad ball striker.  I don't generally hit it fat or thin, but I have no idea where I will hit it on the face with my irons I have little confidence I will hit a green.  Simply put I suck at it.  The only difference is I don't generally take penalty strokes.  Most single digit HCers I see are bad ball strikers IMO.

Yep. I shot a very pedestrian 79 Sunday. I really only hit 8 shots that I was pleased with all day. That leaves somewhere around 30 full swing shots that pretty much sucked...... .....and don't get me started about my putting. :~(

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Yep.

I shot a very pedestrian 79 Sunday. I really only hit 8 shots that I was pleased with all day. That leaves somewhere around 30 full swing shots that pretty much sucked......

.....and don't get me started about my putting.

I've been thinking abou this all day, and thinking about my round yesterday, so I went through my round in more detail.  As in, shot-for-shot.  And this time I didn't just throw out the putts, I ignored all chips and goofy shots too - A couple of punch shots out of the trees, and one goofy lie where the ball was 18" above my feet - and that left me with 33 regular full swing shots.  Trying to picture Erik or Mike or James standing next to me while I hit every one of them, I come up with 12 that I think they would agree were struck pretty well.  12/33 ... and I'm striking the ball far better than I ever have.

P.S.  This game is hard!