2013 Masters Discussion Thread, Update with Tiger's Illegal Drop (Post #343)

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by Dave H

I actually think this is a good way to deal with this type of thing going forward. It seems (I'll admit none of us can truly know intent) that there was no intentional cheating going on. Now that we have HD, infinite replays, etc we can easily see what the right call should be in hindsight. The players don't have that luxury during the middle of the round. If they get it wrong and there's clear video evidence of that, why not just adjust the score to be what it should be? In this case, the field is catching a break as what would have been a 1 stroke penalty is now a 2 stroke penalty.

That is what the new rule is and I do agree with it. If a FACT related to the incident could not reasonably be known to the player then it is resolved afterwards. Makes perfect sense.

However in this case there is no FACT that Tiger didn't know, or couldn't have found out related to the issue. He just forgot the rules and made a boneheaded mistake and should pay the full price unfortunately.

The facts are he knew where the played his previous stoke and he knew where his shot last crossed the margin of the hazard. There are no other facts, after that it was down to his mistake regarding the rules which is his own responsibility.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Just dawned on me ... Tiger never clarified if he was proceeding under stroke ad distance or the line where it last crossed hazard. We know that the line was way left, but because of the sun perhaps he didn't. If that's the case, I guess I can see the justification for the HDTV rule.

It wasn't even close.  This isn't something that could only be seen by close up on HDTV.....

[darkhunter139]

That damn flag stick cost him 4 strokes.  Still want to read their justification for not DQing him but honestly I am happy to get to see him finish the weekend.

[ScT1]

I think the best possible outcome at this point would be for Tiger to disqualify himself.

[3putter]

Chumblee is really staring to piss me off with his commentary. Bobby Jones knew there was an infraction there, and he called it on himself. Tiger on the other hand did not realize there was an infraction there. Judging by his comments, he was following 26-1B which seems like it states that you can go back from the hazard. Chumblee is making it sound like Tiger knew he messed up, and subsequently signed his card. Tiger gained an advantage as he believed the rule afforded him.

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by Yukari

Where was LaCava on all this?

He should have said something.

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Just dawned on me ... Tiger never clarified if he was proceeding under stroke ad distance or the line where it last crossed hazard. We know that the line was way left, but because of the sun perhaps he didn't. If that's the case, I guess I can see the justification for the HDTV rule.

If Tiger couldn't see where his ball last crossed the margin of the hazard because of the sun, that's fair enough. But are you really saying that it was beyond him to work it out. There were so many people he could ask, plus he could have asked to have it checked via TV before signing his card. The examples listed in the rules are for instances where the player didn't know there was an issue. This is purely down to the execution of the rules and it was well within Tiger's powers to make sure he did it correctly.

[Golfingdad]

It wasn't even close.  This isn't something that could only be seen by close up on HDTV.....

youre right ... Just trying to figure out what their justification is.

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by ScT1

I think the best possible outcome at this point would be for Tiger to disqualify himself.

I bet that the field is thinking he should be DQ'd but you won't get any of them to admit it out loud.

[Dave H]

Originally Posted by David in FL

He admitted what he did, and why.  He intentionally backed up 2 yards to play the next shot.

He just applied the rule improperly.  No doubt as to his intent in taking the drop though.

But it is *possible* that he thought he was dropping on the line the ball crossed the hazard. Whatever the case, we have the ability to get the scores right, why not just use the technology to get the score right?

[eich41]

It's pretty disgusting that the rule committee gave him a pass because he's Tiger.  I'm not sure how 33-7 could apply when he openly admitted in the post round interview, that he moved the ball back two yards for the second approach shot.  Tiger has a chance to gain a lot of respect, or completely lose it.  It's up to him to do the right thing and disqualify himself.

[golf1234]

I think Tiger should DQ himself, too much controversy afterward even if he wins and other players would be very unhappy that Tiger has different treatment than them. Bad decision by the committee, as I said I think they made that decision because of money

[LeftyTrevor]

I actually think this is a good way to deal with this type of thing going forward. It seems (I'll admit none of us can truly know intent) that there was no intentional cheating going on. Now that we have HD, infinite replays, etc we can easily see what the right call should be in hindsight. The players don't have that luxury during the middle of the round. If they get it wrong and there's clear video evidence of that, why not just adjust the score to be what it should be? In this case, the field is catching a break as what would have been a 1 stroke penalty is now a 2 stroke penalty.

The problem is it has nothing to do with intent. After his remarks in the post round interview it was a clear misinterpretation of the rules. He needs to do the right thing and DQ himself. If not and he does win it will always be questioned.

[David in FL]

Faldo just basically called Tiger's integrity into question.

Wow.....

[Frank-0-Sport]

Greetings .... USA Today just posted this article --- [URL=http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/04/13/tiger-woods-assessed-2-shot-penalty-from-masters/2079725/]RE Tiger's penalty, along with an explanation of why he was not DQ'd[/URL] Thanx-A-Lot, Frank-0-Sport

[David B]

Tha[quote name="Rick Martin" url="/t/65568/2013-masters-discussion-thread-update-with-possible-illegal-drop-from-tiger-post-343/570#post_831568"] [/quoThat's hilarious!

[Golfingdad]

Faldo just basically called Tiger's integrity into question. Wow.....

Kids are awake ... I'm watching cartoons now so I'm missing all if this. :(

[eich41]

Originally Posted by LeftyTrevor

The problem is it has nothing to do with intent. After his remarks in the post round interview it was a clear misinterpretation of the rules. He needs to do the right thing and DQ himself. If not and he does win it will always be questioned.

This is exactly right.  This isn't the first time this has happened on tour.  And nobody intentionally cheats or breaks rules.  Dustin Johnson lost the PGA because of a rule infraction by not treating a waste bunker where the gallery was standing as a bunker and grounded his club.

Essentially every rules violation is an oversight or a mistake, professional golfers don't intentionally cheat, but that doesn't/shouldn't change the punishment for doing so.