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Jo Mari

sandtrap under repair, where to drop without penalty?

27 posts in this topic

my approach shot landed in the bunker side green, which the bunker is under repair. where should be my drop without penalty lateral where the point of entry of my ball (not closer to the green) or behind the bunker which is 20 feet back from my ball point of entry?

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If the bunker is out of action for a length of time there should be a drop zone located very close to the

bunker.

If the bunker is out of action for weather ect a local rule should be in effect, usually stating to drop with a clear line beetween the ball and flag so you will not chip back into the bunker. .

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It should be marked up as Ground Under Repair - so nearest point of complete relief not nearer the hole and then within a club length of that spot.

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Originally Posted by Jo Mari

my approach shot landed in the bunker side green, which the bunker is under repair. where should be my drop without penalty lateral where the point of entry of my ball (not closer to the green) or behind the bunker which is 20 feet back from my ball point of entry?

If a bunker is under repair and declared GUR the it is automically 'Through the Green' and no longer a Hazard.

Relief should be taken as for any other GUR. ie within 1cl of npr.

See Decision 25/13.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-25/#25/13

In certyain circumstances this could apply to a specific bunker completely filled with water.

Decision 33-8/27

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-33/#33-8/27

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Originally Posted by Rulesman

If a bunker is under repair and declared GUR then it is automically 'Through the Green' and no longer a Hazard.

Relief should be taken as for any other GUR. ie within 1cl of npr.

Too many people try to over-complicate the rules.  This is a perfect example of how simple most rules are.  Certainly there are extremely unusual circumstances that require a little thought and research, but 98.3% (exactly ) of the time, if you understand the very basic rules, you can figure out the correct ruling without too much effort.

BTW.....that's not meant to be a shot at the OP for the question, just a general observation.

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The general lesson to learn from this thread is that GUR is GUR. Regardless of where the GUR is, the normal GUR rules apply?
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Originally Posted by Zeph

The general lesson to learn from this thread is that GUR is GUR. Regardless of where the GUR is, the normal GUR rules apply?

Yes, what makes this a little "complicated" with bunkers is that bunkers are hazards so you must apply the GUR rules for hazards.  If the committee does not specifically deem a bunker as through the green, or specifically give you the right to drop out of a water filled bunker without penalty, (see Rulesman's links)  you are required to drop in the bunker in order to avoid a penalty.  That's what the GUR rule says.

A player can not deem a player as through the green, so if the committee does not do their job, a player could be stuck with having to take a penalty stroke to play out of an unplayable bunker, either under Abnormal Ground Conditions, or Unplayable Lie rules.

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Originally Posted by Dormie1360

Yes, what makes this a little "complicated" with bunkers is that bunkers are hazards so you must apply the GUR rules for hazards.  If the committee does not specifically deem a bunker as through the green, or specifically give you the right to drop out of a water filled bunker without penalty, (see Rulesman's links)  you are required to drop in the bunker in order to avoid a penalty.  That's what the GUR rule says.

How do you mark the bunker as GUR without giving a possibility to drop outside bunker?

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If the bunker is being renovated, then you may drop outside without penalty.  Unless the committee says otherwise, it is considered GUR and loses it's status as a hazard.  Sorry if I did not make that clear.  If the bunker is entirely full of water, it does not lose it's status as a hazard, however the committee may make a local rule allowing relief outside the bunker without penalty.

David is right, I should have kept quiet.

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Originally Posted by Dormie1360

If the bunker is being renovated, then you may drop outside without penalty.  Unless the committee says otherwise, it is considered GUR and loses it's status as a hazard.  Sorry if I did not make that clear.  If the bunker is entirely full of water, it does not lose it's status as a hazard, however the committee may make a local rule allowing relief outside the bunker without penalty.

David is right, I should have kept quiet.

If the bunker is completely under repair, it must be designated as through the green, then clearly marked or identified as ground under repair.  Nothing is automatically GUR just because it looks like it should be.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

If the bunker is completely under repair, it must be designated as through the green, then clearly marked or identified as ground under repair.  Nothing is automatically GUR just because it looks like it should be.

It does not have to be designated as through the green.

Dec 25/13 is intended to apply in this situation also. ie if a complete bunker is declared GUR, for whatever reason. then it loses its status as a hazard and is automatically through the green.

It certainly has to be marked or identified as GUR though.

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Originally Posted by Rulesman

It does not have to be designated as through the green.

Dec 25/13 is intended to apply in this situation also. ie if a complete bunker is declared GUR, for whatever reason. then it loses its status as a hazard and is automatically through the green.

It certainly has to be marked or identified as GUR though.

Isn't this decison fairly new?  At one time wasn't a renovated bunker, when designated as GUR by the committee,  not automatically TTG?

Originally Posted by Fourputt

If the bunker is completely under repair, it must be designated as through the green, then clearly marked or identified as ground under repair.  Nothing is automatically GUR just because it looks like it should be.

This is correct.  I wrote that 3 times and it still  did not come out right.

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Originally Posted by luu5

How do you mark the bunker as GUR without giving a possibility to drop outside bunker?

You mean without penalty? You would need a Local Rule for that, just as described in Dec 25/13.

However, from the top of my head I cannot immediately think of such need.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

If the bunker is completely under repair, it must be designated as through the green, then clearly marked or identified as ground under repair.  Nothing is automatically GUR just because it looks like it should be.

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

This is correct.  I wrote that 3 times and it still  did not come out right.

No, that is not correct. Rulesman has described it correctly.

Dec 25/13 one more time:

25/13
Bunker Totally Under Repair


If a bunker is being renovated and the Committee defines the entire
bunker as ground under repair, the bunker loses its status as a hazard
and is automatically classified as “through the green” . Therefore, unless a
Committee specifically states otherwise, Rule 25-1b(i) applies, not Rule
25-1b(ii).

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Originally Posted by Dormie1360

Isn't this decison fairly new?  At one time wasn't a renovated bunker, when designated as GUR by the committee,  not automatically TTG?

This is correct.  I wrote that 3 times and it still  did not come out right.

The Decision was revised in 2010. Prior to that the bunker was not automatically deemed Through the Green, the Committee had to declare it so.

Now, any bunker declared to be entirely GUR (for whatever reason) is automatically designated Through the Green and is therefore not a hazard.

Which what I said before of course.

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Originally Posted by luu5

How do you mark the bunker as GUR without giving a possibility to drop outside bunker?

As it would automatically become Through the Green (25/13) and no longer a hazard then the player would be dropping in an area which must be outside the GUR (ie the original sandy bunker).

If the Committee required that the drop must be in the area of the 'bunker', they must include in the Local Rule a statement declaring that the area is not Through the Green This is covered in decision 25/13. The bunker wouls still be a Hazard and all relevant rules would apply (eg 13-4)

If ............. the Committee defines the entire bunker as ground under repair, the bunker loses its status as a hazard and is automatically classified as "through the green." Therefore , unless a Committee specifically states otherwise , Rule 25-1b(i) applies, not Rule 25-1b(ii) .

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Originally Posted by Ignorant

No, that is not correct. Rulesman has described it correctly.

Dec 25/13 one more time:

25/13

Bunker Totally Under Repair

If a bunker is being renovated and the Committee defines the entire

bunker as ground under repair, the bunker loses its status as a hazard

and is automatically classified as “through the green”. Therefore, unless a

Committee specifically states otherwise, Rule 25-1b(i) applies, not Rule

25-1b(ii).

I'm with you.  I took "must", in Fourputts response, as automatically....however I do understand the GUR designation does have to come first.

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Originally Posted by Dormie1360

..however I do understand the GUR designation does have to come first.

Call me a pedant but the committee cannot designate a bunker TTG first because that would be overriding a Definition - no can do

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