Right Elbow Action

[scopek]

In the 5 Keys DVDs, Chuck and Dave talk about hinging the right elbow up (and back?) on the take away. But that is all they say about the right elbow in the DVDs. However, in a YouTube clip Dave said to keep the right elbow close to the side (I can't find the clip). In my S&T; lessons, my instructor has had me trying to keep my elbows close together through out the swing as if there is a ball between them. I just can't seem to get this and it feels very unnatural for me. I have really been struggling with keeping my elbows together and keep getting "stuck" on the downswing trying to do this.

I went back to Jim Hardy's books and he talks about pulling the right elbow up and back and keeping it back through impact as long as the left arm is close to the chest....This has helped, but I just want to get some thoughts from you guys.

I'm basically totally confused about what to do with the right elbow. Ironically, I stopped thinking at all about the right elbow and have just been feeling my left arm movement and trying to get it straight and ahead of the ball at impact. That has really helped. But what the heck should the right elbow do? I'm confused. Help!!!

[Mr. Desmond]

Good question - I know what I am trying to do with it after work with 5SK instructors.

But one of the 5SK Instructors can offer a qualified explanation.

[scopek]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Good question - I know what I am trying to do with it after work with 5SK instructors.

But one of the 5SK Instructors can offer a qualified explanation.

I'd still like to get your thoughts.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by scopek

In the 5 Keys DVDs, Chuck and Dave talk about hinging the right elbow up (and back?) on the take away. But that is all they say about the right elbow in the DVDs. However, in a YouTube clip Dave said to keep the right elbow close to the side (I can't find the clip). In my S&T; lessons, my instructor has had me trying to keep my elbows close together through out the swing as if there is a ball between them. I just can't seem to get this and it feels very unnatural for me. I have really been struggling with keeping my elbows together and keep getting "stuck" on the downswing trying to do this.

I went back to Jim Hardy's books and he talks about pulling the right elbow up and back and keeping it back through impact as long as the left arm is close to the chest....This has helped, but I just want to get some thoughts from you guys.

I'm basically totally confused about what to do with the right elbow. Ironically, I stopped thinking at all about the right elbow and have just been feeling my left arm movement and trying to get it straight and ahead of the ball at impact. That has really helped. But what the heck should the right elbow do? I'm confused. Help!!!

Be careful with the Hardy stuff, tend to see too many players with the right elbow behind their shirt seams.  Which is what pulling, "lawnmower" move, can do.

Elbows close together is generally a good feel.  Feeling unnatural is a GOOD thing, means you're doing it right.  It it felt comfortable, it just means you're not making changes.  Here's some good info on the right elbow.  There are a variety of acceptable right elbow postions.  Few things that can lead to "bad" positions regarding the right elbow, flexing the right arm past 90 degrees, right elbow getting behind the shirt seam and the entire upper right arm, elbow to arm pit, staying attached to the body.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54572/right-elbow-spacing-at-a4

[Gator Hater]

I have found that the movement of the right elbow is predicated by how much the player can externally rotate the right humerus. The more flexibility the player has in this joint, the closer the elbow can remain to the side (not passing the side seam on shirt) and the easier it is to get the shaft to lay down on plane. Limited flexibility in this joint tends to cause the elbow to slide behind the player (in order to complete the backswing and still lay the shaft down). The uncomfortable feeling the original poster is feeling may be due to a limited range of motion in this joint.

[Stretch]

Interesting! How do you assess that range of rotation/motion in your players, Jeff?

[scopek]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Be careful with the Hardy stuff, tend to see too many players with the right elbow behind their shirt seams.  Which is what pulling, "lawnmower" move, can do.

Elbows close together is generally a good feel.  Feeling unnatural is a GOOD thing, means you're doing it right.  It it felt comfortable, it just means you're not making changes.  Here's some good info on the right elbow.  There are a variety of acceptable right elbow postions.  Few things that can lead to "bad" positions regarding the right elbow, flexing the right arm past 90 degrees, right elbow getting behind the shirt seam and the entire upper right arm, elbow to arm pit, staying attached to the body.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54572/right-elbow-spacing-at-a4

Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback.

I suppose I'm still confused about the right arm hinging action that was presented in the 5K's DVDs. During the swing DVD, Dave and chuck have the model student hinge his right elbow back on the back swing. However, that is where the instruction on that seems to stop. Can I assume that you just hinge the right elbow back and up and try to keep the pressure at the arm pit? Sorry if my question seems a stupid or a little obsessive about a minor point. In the end, the best thing I've done was just not worry about it and have been concentrating on the left side.

Thanks for your help.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by scopek

Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback.

I suppose I'm still confused about the right arm hinging action that was presented in the 5K's DVDs. During the swing DVD, Dave and chuck have the model student hinge his right elbow back on the back swing. However, that is where the instruction on that seems to stop. Can I assume that you just hinge the right elbow back and up and try to keep the pressure at the arm pit? Sorry if my question seems a stupid or a little obsessive about a minor point. In the end, the best thing I've done was just not worry about it and have been concentrating on the left side.

Thanks for your help.

The DVDs can't get into the intricate details about one body part during one phase of the golf swing.

Your right elbow is primarily responsible for the ascent of the hands. It should ideally not move too far around your chest or behind the shirt seam, though some players with limited mobility will put them there more than others.

You're not really asking straightforward enough questions to answer - not unless you want 5000 words on what the right elbow does. Please be more specific.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by scopek

... my instructor has had me trying to keep my elbows close together through out the swing as if there is a ball between them. I just can't seem to get this and it feels very unnatural for me. I have really been struggling with keeping my elbows together and keep getting "stuck" on the downswing trying to do this.

Me too!  In fact I just purchased myself a www.pipoe.com so I don't have to pretend as if there is a ball between my arms on the drill. :)  For me, it also feels very unnatural, but as I'm trying new things, I realize they all feel that way.  But if I don't "suffer" through these awkward stages as I'm learning these things, I'm never going to improve.

Originally Posted by mvmac

Elbows close together is generally a good feel.  Feeling unnatural is a GOOD thing, means you're doing it right.  It it felt comfortable, it just means you're not making changes.

Yup, and for me the even funnier part of the feel is trying to bow my left wrist from the top of the backswing on down (because I currently cup said wrist, leading to general yuckiness) and that feels extremely awkward.

But when you start figuring stuff out, boy is it rewarding!!!

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by iacas

Your right elbow is primarily responsible for the ascent of the hands. It should ideally not move too far around your chest or behind the shirt seam ...

Erik offers a fine explanation.

And that is what I've been working on ... primarily.

To stop pulling back the right elbow and keep it in front of the seam, I've got to feel like I've got a tee in both armpits for the connection and the right elbow ascending and staying in front of me as I turn.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Erik offers a fine explanation.

And that is what I've been working on ... primarily.

To stop pulling back the right elbow and keep it in front of the seam, I've got to feel like I've got a tee in both armpits for the connection and the right elbow ascending and staying in front of me as I turn.

Thanks to Erik, I immediately know when I'm being stupid and cocking that right elbow up above and behind the "seam". I will almost always end up snap hooking my drives since I have a tendency to do this with my driver more than my irons. As soon as I pull a ball, I immediately focus on my hip-turn because chances are, I am doing very little or no hip turn in my back swing. This makes me over-compensate and my right-arm chicken wings up in the air, right elbow flies up and behind me and I come in from the outside with a closed face. I also notice immediately that my weight transfer sucked on the shot that this happens on.

It's really nice to understand exactly what went wrong so that you can correct it on your next shot, rather than shake your head and get a case of the WTFs.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Spyder

Thanks to Erik, I immediately know when I'm being stupid and cocking that right elbow up above and behind the "seam". I will almost always end up snap hooking my drives since I have a tendency to do this with my driver more than my irons. As soon as I pull a ball, I immediately focus on my hip-turn because chances are, I am doing very little or no hip turn in my back swing. This makes me over-compensate and my right-arm chicken wings up in the air, right elbow flies up and behind me and I come in from the outside with a closed face. I also notice immediately that my weight transfer sucked on the shot that this happens on.

It's really nice to understand exactly what went wrong so that you can correct it on your next shot, rather than shake your head and get a case of the WTFs.

Erik and Mike also worked with me on the hips as did Dana Dahlquist. They (I think it was all) suggested I turn my belly button - that starts the whole upper body turning together, including the hips, especially if you're driving pressure into the back foot and losing flexion in the back leg on the backswing.

I've also got to "feel" that the right elbow is pointing in front of the body to make sure it's in front of the body.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Erik and Mike also worked with me on the hips as did Dana Dahlquist. They (I think it was all) suggested I turn my belly button - that starts the whole upper body turning together, including the hips, especially if you're driving pressure into the back foot and losing flexion in the back leg on the backswing.

I've also got to "feel" that the right elbow is pointing in front of the body to make sure it's in front of the body.

Yep, and hell... this is only what I learned from his video that was posted. I am really looking forward to my trip up to Erie this Summer if they'll still have me!