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MEfree

Incorrectly Marked Hazard

13 posts in this topic

What are the player's options when the committee has incorrectly identified what should be a lateral water hazard with yellow stakes?

The Keystone River Course has at least 1 hole ( number 7 ) where I believe at least part of the hazard is incorrectly marked with yellow stakes instead of red.  They do have a drop area sign on the closely mown area short of the green, but there is no mention of this local drop area on the score card and I have been told that it is not used in real tournament play.  I believe that last year, the portion of the hazard that runs parallel to the green was marked with red stakes, but for some reason it is marked with yellow stakes this season.

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I'd play the course as it's marked, and then bring your concern to the Superintendent after the round.

I'd also add that there's a difference between a specific situation that's marked incorrectly, and one that's marked differently from how you'd prefer.....

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Originally Posted by David in FL

I'd play the course as it's marked, and then bring your concern to the Superintendent after the round.

I'd also add that there's a difference between a specific situation that's marked incorrectly, and one that's marked differently from how you'd prefer.....

Makes sense...Looking at the google maps link here or above, do you think the area to the right and behind the green should be marked as a red or yellow hazard?

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Originally Posted by MEfree

Makes sense...Looking at the google maps link here or above, do you think the area to the right and behind the green should be marked as a red or yellow hazard?

Behind the green, yellow for sure.

Parallel to the hole, especially that portion parallel to the fairway, more likely red.  But again, just the fact that we may disagree with the marking, doesn't necessarily mean that it's incorrect......unfortunately.

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I am curious why you think the area behind the green is definitely yellow?

When looking at the definition of a lateral, it says

Lateral Water Hazard

A “ lateral water hazard ” is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-Ib . All ground and water within the margin of a lateral water hazard are part of the lateral water hazard .

On this hole, if you fly the green by a yard or two you have a good chance of rolling into the hazard but can't be certain of this from the tee.  If this is played as a regular hazard, you have to go up to the green and look for your ball.  If it is unplayable in the hazard, there is no place to drop the ball behind the hazard, so you are forced (assuming the local drop area is not in play) to go back to the tee which slows the game down.

Regarding the local drop area.  I may have asked this before, but when it is not discussed on the card and there is no signage explaining who the area is intended for, how should it be played.  Also, how close to the sign do you have to drop the ball (assuming that you are eligible to use the drop area)?

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If I was marking that hole, I'd mark it yellow between the tees and green and up to the point where the creek (river?) turns left to go behind the green, then switch to red.  No drop zone on the green side of the water.

You must play the course as it's marked, even if you think it is incorrect.  Doing otherwise will likely result in DQ for playing from a wrong place with signifcant advantage gained.

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The marking and drop is likely something done to assist players not familiar with the course. Right or wrong Keystone River Course gets a lot of vacationing golfers. I was there last year and I remember them being testy about ESA too. They don't want people trampling around where they shouldn't be.

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Is it kosher for a water hazard to be marked with yellow and red stakes?  There is this little par 3 course I play that has two ponds, and both of them are half red, half yellow.  I find that to be quite odd.

For one of them, I think I get the reasoning ... the yellow half is in front of the green on one hole, and the red half is along right side of the fairway of another (there are two par 4's, this is one of them).

The other is along the left side of the same par 4 I just mentioned, however, there are no other holes to the left of it.  And I don't remember exactly where the cutoff is between the red and yellow on this one.  I'll pay attention next time.

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Is it kosher for a water hazard to be marked with yellow and red stakes?  There is this little par 3 course I play that has two ponds, and both of them are half red, half yellow.  I find that to be quite odd.

For one of them, I think I get the reasoning ... the yellow half is in front of the green on one hole, and the red half is along right side of the fairway of another (there are two par 4's, this is one of them).

The other is along the left side of the same par 4 I just mentioned, however, there are no other holes to the left of it.  And I don't remember exactly where the cutoff is between the red and yellow on this one.  I'll pay attention next time.

Perfectly proper if it's done right.  It should be marked in red if there is no place to drop back on a line through the ball from the flagstick, and yellow if there is a reasonable place to drop on a line from the pin.

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It's proper even when not marked, but noted in the local Rules.  For example, at Augusta National the water hazard on hole #16 is marked with yellow paint, and is that way for hole #16.  However, for play of hole #15 (going over the green), the water hazard on 16 is played as a lateral water hazard, as noted in the Notice to Competitors.

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Is it kosher for a water hazard to be marked with yellow and red stakes?  There is this little par 3 course I play that has two ponds, and both of them are half red, half yellow.  I find that to be quite odd.

For one of them, I think I get the reasoning ... the yellow half is in front of the green on one hole, and the red half is along right side of the fairway of another (there are two par 4's, this is one of them).

The other is along the left side of the same par 4 I just mentioned, however, there are no other holes to the left of it.  And I don't remember exactly where the cutoff is between the red and yellow on this one.  I'll pay attention next time.

The hazard I am talking about used to be split in a similar manner last season and there is still a split now but only if you are way long left in the part that is behind the 2nd green.  I think it was likely a grounds keeper mistake rather than a conscious decision by the "committee" to change it.

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Perfectly proper if it's done right.  It should be marked in red if there is no place to drop back on a line through the ball from the flagstick, and yellow if there is a reasonable place to drop on a line from the pin.

That's the issue I have with this hazard.  If you are long or pin high right, there is no place to drop back on a line through the ball from the flagstick.  Looking at the google map, don't you agree?

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Originally Posted by MEfree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Perfectly proper if it's done right.  It should be marked in red if there is no place to drop back on a line through the ball from the flagstick, and yellow if there is a reasonable place to drop on a line from the pin.

That's the issue I have with this hazard.  If you are long or pin high right, there is no place to drop back on a line through the ball from the flagstick.  Looking at the google map, don't you agree?

Depending on where the actual hazard line is supposed to be, I'd probably agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

Depending on where the actual hazard line is supposed to be, I'd probably agree with you.

The hazard line is more or less along the bush/tree line and the green is raised so everything right/long bounces/rolls towards the hazard.  i.e. I landed just past the right bunker yesterday and was in the hazard long and right of the green- fortunately, I had a playable shot and got out with a 4, but I could have just as easily had no option but to go back to the tee.

edit-

Looking at google again, I noticed that it might be possible to take a drop on or around the 5th tee in some cases where you were in the right side of the hazard and on/near the 4th green when you were long.  The problem is that the river is moving swiftly right now so the only safe way to get to those drop locations would require going back past the tee and then taking the bike path- this would slow you down a few minutes with a cart and something like 10 minutes without one.  It is not uncommon for a group to have to wait a bit on the tee on this hole without a crazy drop like that, so I can't imagine that taking advantage of that drop option would be too popular.

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