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  • Administrator
Posted

I would say I would be pretty accurate. It is definitely possible to have some flip and non flip swings just like with any setting change you make. It's fine to ask though. The ball flight, distance, sound of style are all significantly different when I flip and don't flip.


Jeremie, I'm with Eyad. I doubt there's anywhere near the differences between the swings as you seem to think. Depending on the club, ball position, ground conditions, and all sorts of other things, you can pretty easily trick yourself into thinking that your swing is quite different one to the next, but it's highly unlikely to be.

Feel ain't real and all that… Heck, we taught a +1 handicapper, winner of several Erie area amateur city championships and stuff, and he flipped on EVERY shot. Just got good at timing it with all the golf he played.

All that being said, you ARE making good improvements. Keep at it. The above isn't to discourage at all.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

I would say I would be pretty accurate. It is definitely possible to have some flip and non flip swings just like with any setting change you make. It's fine to ask though. The ball flight, distance, sound of style are all significantly different when I flip and don't flip.

Jeremie, I'm with Eyad. I doubt there's anywhere near the differences between the swings as you seem to think. Depending on the club, ball position, ground conditions, and all sorts of other things, you can pretty easily trick yourself into thinking that your swing is quite different one to the next, but it's highly unlikely to be.

Feel ain't real and all that… Heck, we taught a +1 handicapper, winner of several Erie area amateur city championships and stuff, and he flipped on EVERY shot. Just got good at timing it with all the golf he played.

All that being said, you ARE making good improvements. Keep at it. The above isn't to discourage at all.

Agreed with Erik and Eyad. Great improvements, but it's highly unlikely you have flip swings and non-flip swings.

Constantine

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  • Moderator
Posted

Agreed with Erik and Eyad. Great improvements, but it's highly unlikely you have flip swings and non-flip swings.

Correct, you can flip it and still hit good shots, just like you can flip it and hit it thin or fat. It's just how the timing worked out. Good shots don't mean that the picture changed all that much from the bad shots.

Mike McLoughlin

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Posted
Quote:
You are flipping *general quote referring to all the responses*

Apparently I was wrong about the flip/non-flip swings. I defer to the experts. However, I must say it seems strange that other swing flaws can happen randomly but a flip has to either be there all the time or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlSpackler View Post

Good round today other than those few bad holes.

Yeah, I was pretty much happy with the round given having 4 3 putts and a handful of tee shots that went astray. Ending on a tap in bird on the par 5 last was nice. Your dad is a pretty cool guy, was nice to golf with him.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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  • Administrator
Posted

Apparently I was wrong about the flip/non-flip swings. I defer to the experts. However, I must say it seems strange that other swing flaws can happen randomly but a flip has to either be there all the time or not.

"Other swing flaws" don't happen randomly, either.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted
Yeah, I was pretty much happy with the round given having 4 3 putts and a handful of tee shots that went astray. Ending on a tap in bird on the par 5 last was nice. Your dad is a pretty cool guy, was nice to golf with him.

Yeah. He loves to chase geese. That is probably his favorite thing to do.

- Shane

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Posted

Went ahead and cancelled Evolvr for now. Obviously the 3 lessons I got are still all in need of further ingraining so I'll just focus on that through the winter. I'll periodically post videos here just as a way to keep track of any progress I make. Either way, working on those lessons will get me to key 3 if I can make them permanent aspects of my swing. At this point I'm pretty close to shutting down my golfing for the season after my last few rounds, venturing back into the 100's is not something I find enjoyable.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

Went ahead and cancelled Evolvr for now. Obviously the 3 lessons I got are still all in need of further ingraining so I'll just focus on that through the winter. I'll periodically post videos here just as a way to keep track of any progress I make. Either way, working on those lessons will get me to key 3 if I can make them permanent aspects of my swing. At this point I'm pretty close to shutting down my golfing for the season after my last few rounds, venturing back into the 100's is not something I find enjoyable.


Ditto. But then there was that putt on 17 yesterday and the weather is freakin awesome.

- Shane

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Posted

Went ahead and cancelled Evolvr for now. Obviously the 3 lessons I got are still all in need of further ingraining so I'll just focus on that through the winter. I'll periodically post videos here just as a way to keep track of any progress I make. Either way, working on those lessons will get me to key 3 if I can make them permanent aspects of my swing. At this point I'm pretty close to shutting down my golfing for the season after my last few rounds, venturing back into the 100's is not something I find enjoyable.

2 steps forward, 1 step back. Name of the game.

I was shooting in the mid-to-upper 80s last season. This year I struggle for mid 90s...but I'm still happy, because I know my fundamentals and swing are improving, and in the end, my ceiling is going to be a lot higher.

I could have just kept doing what I was doing, and maybe even eventually started golfing in the low-to-mid 80s regularly, but I'm aiming for more than that. Sometimes your present game has to suffer in order your future game to improve. Don't get too discouraged.

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
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Posted

2 steps forward, 1 step back. Name of the game.

I was shooting in the mid-to-upper 80s last season. This year I struggle for mid 90s...but I'm still happy, because I know my fundamentals and swing are improving, and in the end, my ceiling is going to be a lot higher.

I could have just kept doing what I was doing, and maybe even eventually started golfing in the low-to-mid 80s regularly, but I'm aiming for more than that. Sometimes your present game has to suffer in order your future game to improve. Don't get too discouraged.


I'm just focusing on what I've been told at this point. I don't feel like my swing is getting better right now either, more like I'm backsliding. That's why I'm just going to go back and focus on the last 3 lessons until next year.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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  • 3 months later...
Posted

Ok, so, unfortunately my plans of a practice area in the garage fell through. My father needed to store things in the garage. So, since that's a bust I was thinking about getting an orange whip or something similar. My question is this, will this help me at all or is it just more of a warm up aid? I was thinking that it would help me eliminate my flip by grooving and ingraining the proper release of the club? If this isn't the case I will work on other means of trying to not lose the progress I've made, however small it was, this year.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

A Boop sighting!!!

Glad to see you haven't completely given up. I'm not sure about the orange whip...I suppose swinging anything with the same golf swing motion during the winter is better than nothing, but I'm sure someone more knowledgable will chime in.

I can sympathize with the garage problem...I have a buddy staying with me (still...much longer than I wanted/thought) so he's taking up my 3rd garage bay (aka, the practice spot). Between that, and my neck issues...I haven't swung a club in 2 months.

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

A Boop sighting!!!

Glad to see you haven't completely given up. I'm not sure about the orange whip...I suppose swinging anything with the same golf swing motion during the winter is better than nothing, but I'm sure someone more knowledgable will chime in.

I can sympathize with the garage problem...I have a buddy staying with me (still...much longer than I wanted/thought) so he's taking up my 3rd garage bay (aka, the practice spot). Between that, and my neck issues...I haven't swung a club in 2 months.

I was pretty disappointed that my practice plans for the winter got ruined but I can't tell my dad no he can't store things in the garage. I don't want to end up like the beginning of this year when I could barely make contact with the ball for the first month of play.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I was pretty disappointed that my practice plans for the winter got ruined but I can't tell my dad no he can't store things in the garage. I don't want to end up like the beginning of this year when I could barely make contact with the ball for the first month of play.



Yeah, I hear ya. Aren't there still courses open by you? There's no snow yet...go play a round. :)

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
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Posted

Yeah, I hear ya. Aren't there still courses open by you? There's no snow yet...go play a round. :)

ROFL, I don't play golf after the temp drops below 50. I think I saw one course that had flags still in the greens though.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

ROFL, I don't play golf after the temp drops below 50. I think I saw one course that had flags still in the greens though.

I'd play if I could get someone to come with. Just wear some long johns and layer up. ;)

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I'd play if I could get someone to come with. Just wear some long johns and layer up. ;)

I have this thing where I can't play with long sleeves on. I had the same thing when playing pool and bowling. I don't know why, just feels uncomfortable.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1371 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Day 610 - 2026-06-03 Got some work in between lessons today. Rare late day, teaching until 7:30pm.
    • Let's continue on… Cool. The thing is, nobody's claiming par is "reliable" and par's inclusion piggy-backs in the course rating, which is awfully close to par and, thus, brings par in to make it make sense. Once again, for those in the back… (CR - Par) just makes it really easy to know what kind of score you need to shoot to best, match, or play worse than your handicap index. Yes, when par is different, the players from the higher par tees get an extra stroke (72 vs. 71, the 72s get an extra stroke. That makes sense and is a small complication (more info at https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Committee%20Content/USGA/LG_R6d.htm). However, most of the time, this adjustment will not be needed, as many courses play to the same par for the same genders from all sets of tees. And, the rare times it is needed, par (measured in whole numbers, integers) and strokes (also whole numbers/integers) map easily and the idea is easily grasped. Dean seems to be unaware of the fact that most every golfer carries something orders of magnitude more powerful than the highest end desktop computers available the last time he consulted with the USGA in their pockets. While it is quaint that his club puts printouts by the first tee… get with the times, Dean. Look up your handicap index and course handicap in the GHIN app and get on with it. It's a better system than the one that didn't account — at all — for a difference in the playing conditions (via an algorithm, not a judgment). Dean's assertions about the "less precise system because of par" continues to make absolutely zero sense. Right, it still changed tee to tee. Now it just changes differently… and in a way that more accurately reflects the score you need to shoot to play to your handicap. Previously, a 1.1 index would get 1 stroke on a 66.7/122 par-72 course. Now they give four strokes back to the course and must shoot 68 to play to their handicap. This makes way more sense. The 18-shot difference is a pretty extreme example. Maybe a long course that also offers a par-three set of tees could play that long, but… man, that's not going to be super common. Sensationalistic much, Dean? Also, once those unhappy (complete assumption) golfers realize a) what the change shows them (playing to net par = playing to your index) and b) realizes that their differential is going to be the same… I think they'll get over their initial questions. No. And yet… if he shoots the same scores, he'll get the same handicap index he has now. But he'll know on each course what score he needs to shoot to "play to his handicap." Sheesh, Dean. This stuff isn't that hard to figure out. Enough with the sensationalistic stuff. I don't find it "unacceptable" at all. Then again, I'm not nearly 80 and seemingly incapable of doing basic math these days. No. This literally makes no sense, as that part of the differential calculation and the course handicap calculation remains identical. Good! No. Categorically wrong. They should have been adjusting their handicaps all along. Previously it was by subtracting the course ratings. Which… is still basically what's done, with the addition of the course rating being "baked in" to the course handicap calculation. Dean is wrong here, or doing some math heretofore unknown by the world. When par is the same, what determines the difference in handicaps? The course rating, which Dean loves! Sheesh! You had to things when players were in situations like this before, too. This is getting exhausting. He keeps using words like "less precise" and "unfair" but does not seem to understand what they mean. This is like the Princess Bride meme: "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." The caps reduce upward movement. Committees have reign to reduce a player's handicap, and there's still an automatic Exceptional Score Reduction. I'm going through these more quickly now because… well, it's silly how badly Dean misses the mark with this blog post. Dean is literally confusing the upward movement (with the soft and hard caps) here with the exceptional score reduction which is used when lowering handicaps due to an exceptionally good score. The creators of the WHS are handicap experts. They know more about the current state of handicaps/handicapping than the Pope Emeritus. It's been shown to have almost no effect across all handicaps. Yes, some 36s under the old system are now 35s under the new system. Yawn. He should have stopped there. It's easier to apply and makes more sense. This makes no sense. It's "not complex" but players will have to guess? And, for men or women, the stroke index of each hole doesn't change because they play a different set of tees. They get a different number of strokes, but it's always been true that when you get 14 strokes you apply a stroke to stroke index holes 1-14, and when you get 11, to just holes with a SI of 1-11. Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence. Dean's just out here continuing to make shit up about "the inaccuracy of par" and ignoring that with Par (an integer) came the Course Rating, which he agrees is precise and accurate. No. No, this is inaccurate. Also, as noted, you can randomly assign stroke indexes, and so long as all the low numbers or all the high numbers are not clumped together at the beginning or ends of the 18 holes, matches generally work out the same. This is inaccurate. It is an algorithm that looks at scores. That's it. Also, this is better than a system like the prior one where no such thing existed at all. Wildly inaccurate and off-base. Did they do actual testing? No need. They have millions and millions of rounds and ran many, many, many simulations. That's testing. Dean seems to continue to be unaware of the fact that computers are more powerful now than they were in 2002. But, he's nearly 80, so we can understand if not going so far as to give him a pass on how much he gets wrong. Cool. Noted. For the most part that was because many countries haven't been able to rate enough of their courses. :sigh:
    • Day 3 (3 Jun 26) - More work on keeping arms connected today - hard foam balls with 7i and 5w…..
    • Day 274 6-3 flow drill getting chest through, arms in front. Arms get a little pinned to the side, not as much in front as I want them when I add speed. 
    • Shot 48 yesterday.  For me bogey golf is good.  I was 10 over through 7 and figured with a Par 3 and 4 coming on all I needed was birdie / par to get my 45. I had a great tee shot on #8 and sunk  a 5 footer for birdie, game was coming together, now just needed par on #9. Had a great tee drive and the green was within range for a hoped GIR or nGIR.  But I pulled the shot left into tall weeds and needed to take a drop.  So much for par, but a bogey for 46 is still good for me. I hit my lob wedge to get over a small tree and saw the ball riding nicely  on line to the pin when my club hit the ball a 2nd time on my follow through causing the ball to change directions and ended up @ pin high but along the same tall weeds I just took an unplayable out of.  had no room for a backswing, Just hacked at it and it shot across the green to the rough on the far side.  Needed a chip & 1 putt got a triple bogey. you can see the hole fall apart in the screenshot below.  
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