2013 Women's US Open Discussion Thread

[jamo]

7.  While the paint is drying and nothing else in on TV, I'd much rather watch the women play golf than stare at the walls in the laundry room.

That's high praise. FWIW, I can count on one hand the amount of hours I've spent watching LPGA Tour golf. I can say the same for the Champions Tour. And Mad Men . It's simply not as entertaining.

[dave67az]

Something tells me we're going to be revisiting this topic in a year when both the men and women are playing on Pinehurst #2 for the US Open and US Women's Open on consecutive weeks.

[Slice of Life]

Bottom line for me:

I watch professional sports to see the best of the best at their respective sport play at the absolute highest level.

Women golfers are not the best of the best, and they don't play at the highest level. Tiger on an off day would crush the competition in an LPGA event.

Same with basketball, worst team in the NBA would embarrass the best WNBA on the court.

I can go on and on...

[Slice of Life]

Example...Luke Donald's average driving distance is 277 yards. Only 2 yards longer than Nicole Smith's average driving distance.

Who do you think is winning if they go head to head on the same course from the same tees? We'll move Luke back 2 yards to keep it fair...

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Bottom line for me:

I watch professional sports to see the best of the best at their respective sport play at the absolute highest level.

Women golfers are not the best of the best, and they don't play at the highest level. Tiger on an off day would crush the competition in an LPGA event.

Same with basketball, worst team in the NBA would embarrass the best WNBA on the court.

I can go on and on...

Hope you're not a Browns fan.  lol  (just kidding...I mean seriously...I'm a Raiders fan...I certainly don't watch them because I think they're the best of the best)

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by dave67az

Hope you're not a Browns fan.  lol  (just kidding...I mean seriously...I'm a Raiders fan...I certainly don't watch them because I think they're the best of the best)

You know I almost put a disclaimer after "playing at the highest level."

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

You know I almost put a disclaimer after "playing at the highest level."

I hear ya.

I guess when I watch the LPGA, I feel like I AM watching ladies golf at the highest level in the world.  Clearly when a lot of guys watch ladies' sports, they can't get past comparing them head-to-head against men and don't enjoy it because of that comparison (that's pretty sad, as far as I'm concerned).  To me, that's an apples-to-oranges comparison.  Ladies aren't built the same.  They don't have the advantage of natural testosterone when it comes to building strength which is why they only drive it 88% as far as the men.  But golf is more of a game of finesse than strength (evidenced by what I saw at Merion) which is why I'd happily go out on a limb and say that next year the ladies will show that their scoring will be very similar to the men when they both play Pinehurst.  I'll watch with interest to see if they cut the rough shorter for the ladies, give them easier pin placements, and slower greens.  I'm just saying that from what I've seen so far this year, the greens and pin placements don't seem to me to be much different between the LPGA and PGA Tour events.

[Golfingdad]

I think the thing I like most about golf on TV, and by that the thing that makes me want to watch a tournament, are the courses.  Good courses that I am familiar with.

Obviously, great fields help (Tiger, Rory, Phil) and people accomplishing great things (pretty sure I'll be watching the womens british this year for the first time ever if Inbee is in contention), but save for any other compelling stories, I think I just like good courses.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by dave67az

Something tells me we're going to be revisiting this topic in a year when both the men and women are playing on Pinehurst #2 for the US Open and US Women's Open on consecutive weeks.

There's a reason that the men's US Open is first. Much easier to cut rough in a week than grow it out.

I'll be really curious to see how the set-ups compare. And I'll be much more compelled by the women's open. Hell I might even watch some of it.

[Wisguy]

It's a catch-22 - there's little interest in the sport because it's viewed as not being very competitive and it's not very competitive because there's little interest in the sport and it is not attracting as many skilled athletes at any level of the game.  I have heard the very easiest of all college athletic scholarships to obtain is women's golf - any high school girl who can shoot in the 80's can get a free education somewhere.  On other threads, people have practically ridiculed young guys asking about golf scholarships who aren't regularly scoring, if not breaking, par.  Part of the problem is that from a young age, many girls are discouraged from playing or watching sports in the US.  For every elementary school girl in my neighborhood who is doing some sort of sport, there are probably two taking dance instead.  But hey - I'm at least trying.  We've had our daughter in the First Tee program the past two summers (every course in the area that has a kids program offers it mid-morning on weekdays, impossible when both parents work.

I agree that the LPGA does need a strictly implemented new policy to speed up the game.  Slow sports are boring sports.  I remember back in high school I saw an Ivy League men's basketball game in the era before the shot clock, when Princeton's coach had basically ordered his team to play keep-away once they had an eight point lead about ten minutes into the game.  Final score:  Princeton 24, Columbia 18 (seriously, I'm not making that up).  The students started sarcastically counting out loud the number of passes without a shot and the chants got over 100 several times.

Still, I think the "boring" labels are based more on bias than on actual deficits in entertainment value.  Women's tennis is fun to watch, even though no woman could compete with a top level men's player (I think Serena, who is the strongest and best female tennis player in the history of the sport, recently admitted she wouldn't win more than a point or two, if any at all, against Andy Murray and she'd have to go at least 300 deep in the men's rankings before she'd beat a male pro).  Same with women's volleyball.  Soccer - well, once you get beyond age 6 or so, soccer truly is more boring than watching paint dry regardless of the gender of the players.

Finally, to go back to a point made earlier, the fact that Annika did not make the cut in the single PGA tournament that she entered is a pretty meaningless fact.  No one on this board put under that much pressure and scrutiny could shoot within 5 strokes of his handicap.  Tiger misses cuts and so did practically everyone but Byron Nelson (and even he and Hogan missed some in their less-than-best years).  Two weeks ago at Merion some guys missed the cut shooting 15-16 over - does that mean they're crappy golfers with no potential to compete?  I think Messieurs Cabrera, Olazabel, Furyk, and Clarke would think otherwise.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Still, I think the "boring" labels are based more on bias than on actual deficits in entertainment value.  Women's tennis is fun to watch, even though no woman could compete with a top level men's player (I think Serena, who is the strongest and best female tennis player in the history of the sport, recently admitted she wouldn't win more than a point or two, if any at all, against Andy Murray and she'd have to go at least 300 deep in the men's rankings before she'd beat a male pro).  Same with women's volleyball.  Soccer - well, once you get beyond age 6 or so, soccer truly is more boring than watching paint dry regardless of the gender of the players.

I'm not biased against women or women's sports. I actually prefer ladies tennis, just because there's more finesse and they play the way the game was meant to be played. Most men just blast it and hope the other guy messes up.

And soccer is not boring, sir.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

There's a reason that the men's US Open is first. Much easier to cut rough in a week than grow it out.

I'll be really curious to see how the set-ups compare. And I'll be much more compelled by the women's open. Hell I might even watch some of it.

I actually thought the same thing!  lol  After Erik's comment that they cripple the courses for the ladies (my wording, not his), I wondered if this was why the men are playing the week before.  I'll be watching for sure, and I'll be paying attention to the pin placements and green speeds.  I know the ladies have played the same courses as the men in the past, and outscored them, too, but it was never in consecutive weeks (at least not that I could find) and without weighing all the factors there's no way to fairly compare their games.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I'm not biased against women or women's sports. I actually prefer ladies tennis, just because there's more finesse and they play the way the game was meant to be played. Most men just blast it and hope the other guy messes up.

And soccer is not boring, sir.

Agree to disagree.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Wisguy

Soccer - well, once you get beyond age 6 or so, soccer truly is more boring than watching paint dry regardless of the gender of the players.

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

And soccer is not boring, sir.

Yes.  Wisguy, for the record, your thumbs-up was for the other points you made on that post, not for your dig against soccer.  That part I do not agree with. ;)

[Wisguy]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

And soccer is not boring, sir.

There was an episode of the Fox animated series King of the Hill (KOTH) where Bobby, the slightly nerdy son of all-Americanish lead character Hank Hill quits the little league American football team on which his dad wants him to play and instead joins the soccer team, coached by a long-haired, bespectacled, East Coast hippy peacenik.  At the beginning of the episode, Hank gives his son a little advice about the sport:

Bobby, I never thought I'd need to tell you this, but I would be a bad parent if I didn't. Soccer was invented by European ladies to keep them busy while their husbands did the cooking.

Toward the end of a very lengthy nil-nil (tied at 0-0) game, Bobby gets a fast break (if such things are called that in soccer), is heading toward the goal with the entire field empty before him and suddenly his coach screams out

"Slow down! We've already got the tie! We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!"

Sorry, but any sporting event where all of its fans think it's incredibly cool to scream GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL for a full 96 seconds after that rarest of events - someone actually scores - occurs is but one thing:  lame.  Don't even get me started about all the diving those cry-baby Europrancers do.  Soccer is lamer than a two-legged dog.

Some may wish to disagree with me, but you would be more wrong than if you contended neither Tiger nor Jack were even good enough to be considered scratch golfers.

That is all.

[boogielicious]

I coached soccer for 12 years.  I would rather watch any youth soccer game than professional soccer with the exception of the US Women's team.  They play to win, where most teams play not to lose.  The Men's World Cup was awful last time.

THE MAIN REASON why women's sport do not get good ratings on TV is the following: Women do not watch women's sports on TV .  Bottom line.  Women are half the population (~51-52%), but do not watch sports as much and certainly do not support women's sports enough.  I have five women friends who play golf regularly.  Only one of them is a avid watcher of golf and women's golf.  She goes to the Solheim cup every two years.  Other than that, none of them watch women's sports.  They'll watch men's sports all the time, but not women.

Women athletes need to reach out to women to help their sports thrive.

[jamo]

There was an episode of the Fox animated series King of the Hill (KOTH) where Bobby, the slightly nerdy son of all-Americanish lead character Hank Hill quits the little league American football team on which his dad wants him to play and instead joins the soccer team, coached by a long-haired, bespectacled, East Coast hippy peacenik.  At the beginning of the episode, Hank gives his son a little advice about the sport: Bobby, I never thought I'd need to tell you this, but I would be a bad parent if I didn't. Soccer was invented by European ladies to keep them busy while their husbands did the cooking. Toward the end of a very lengthy nil-nil (tied at 0-0) game, Bobby gets a fast break (if such things are called that in soccer), is heading toward the goal with the entire field empty before him and suddenly his coach screams out "Slow down! We've already got the tie! We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!" Sorry, but any sporting event where all of its fans think it's incredibly cool to scream GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL for a full 96 seconds after that rarest of events - someone actually scores - occurs is but one thing:  lame.  Don't even get me started about all the diving those cry-baby Europrancers do.  Soccer is lamer than a two-legged dog.  Some may wish to disagree with me, but you would be more wrong than if you contended neither Tiger nor Jack were even good enough to be considered scratch golfers.  That is all.

Of the vast multitude of ways that are available to insult soccer, that's what they went with? Uhm, okay.

[RonTheSavage]

I might be a snob and tell me if Im the only person who's noticed this but women's golf (or champions tour for that matter) isnt always shown in HD. Thats enough for me to quickly change the channel. Not that it matters one bit. but the "guy" in me didnt like to look at Inbee Park in HD, BUT recently I've decided that she's not THAT bad looking.