My Swing (JonMA1)

[Ernest Jones]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

Really depressing practice tonight. I just can't seem to execute the "5S's" of good practice. I'm way too result-driven. My practice sessions are like playing "Battleship" with different feels.

Until I can learn how to slow the #@^% down and stop worrying about results, any real or lasting change isn't likely to occur.

Practice chipping for a while. Work on getting that nice, crisp sound. 

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

Really depressing practice tonight. I just can't seem to execute the "5S's" of good practice. I'm way too result-driven. My practice sessions are like playing "Battleship" with different feels.

Until I can learn how to slow the #@^% down and stop worrying about results, any real or lasting change isn't likely to occur.

I was and am still in this boat. I have to constantly remind myself not to swing too fast, and to let my body "go at it's pace". Not to over swing. Not to be so results oriented.

It's a constant fight. That's why slowing down works. You don't want to care how far the ball is going to go or if you shank it or not, but rather focus on the body motion and sequence. That's why 5S works. For me, sometimes I get it, sometimes not. When I don't get it I slow down as much as I can, and work out all the issues. That's why it's been taking me so long to change the picture. I've been working for a 3 and a half years to change it, and only changed it a little bit. The results changed a lot, but if you look at my body sequence looks almost the same as when I started. Just a few parts of my body moved around a bit, and I am using different muscles to swing. It's really hard.

[JonMA1]

10 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

Practice chipping for a while. Work on getting that nice, crisp sound. 

Good advice. That's exactly what I'll do. Go back to what good contact feels like. Maybe I should start and end every practice with this. Thanks.

 

10 hours ago, Lihu said:

I was and am still in this boat. I have to constantly remind myself not to swing too fast, and to let my body "go at it's pace". Not to over swing. Not to be so results oriented.

It's a constant fight. That's why slowing down works. You don't want to care how far the ball is going to go or if you shank it or not, but rather focus on the body motion and sequence. That's why 5S works. For me, sometimes I get it, sometimes not. When I don't get it I slow down as much as I can, and work out all the issues. That's why it's been taking me so long to change the picture. I've been working for a 3 and a half years to change it, and only changed it a little bit. The results changed a lot, but if you look at my body sequence looks almost the same as when I started. Just a few parts of my body moved around a bit, and I am using different muscles to swing. It's really hard.

Exactly. Too fast on the tempo, too fast between swings. When we're playing a round, the objective is to take as few swings as possible, right? Yet, during my practices it's often just the opposite. It probably shouldn't be that way. I still have not learned how to practice. I like Erik's recent story about the guy who practiced his backswing - just his backswing - for like 2 hours without hitting a ball. That's the kind of discipline I need.

The longer we're at this, the more aware we become of just how long it takes (most of us) to make even incremental improvements. Knowing that somehow makes it easier to accept. 

I woke up this morning and made a few practice swings in the mirror with what I was working on last night. Immediately recognized the problem.

Thanks @Lihu.

[Lihu]

Sure, it's a really slow process.

Another thing is not to rush. Pace of play is not affected by what feels like taking 1 second longer on the backswing. Don't feel hurried when making your swing. Take your time to setup properly and get that slower tempo feel before your actual swing. This feel made all the difference in my game. Your swing is actually faster where it counts even though you look like your are swinging slower and more relaxed. It's the difference between high bogey golf and lower bogey golf.

[boogielicious]

13 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Really depressing practice tonight. I just can't seem to execute the "5S's" of good practice. I'm way too result-driven. My practice sessions are like playing "Battleship" with different feels.

Until I can learn how to slow the #@^% down and stop worrying about results, any real or lasting change isn't likely to occur.

It's hard. We've spent years pounding balls at the range. It's hard to change that mentality.

Try separating your practice sessions into parts. First part is 5S for maybe 20 minutes with no full speed work and just filming the slow drills. Check on your progress during the practice by review the video. Then go to something else like pitches or partial wedge shots for 10 or 15 minutes. This has stopped me from just progressing to full swings and reverting back to bad habits.

[Ernest Jones]

5 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

It's hard. We've spent years pounding balls at the range. It's hard to change that mentality.

Try separating your practice sessions into parts. First part is 5S for maybe 20 minutes with no full speed work and just filming the slow drills. Check on your progress during the practice by review the video. Then go to something else like pitches or partial wedge shots for 10 or 15 minutes. This has stopped me from just progressing to full swings and reverting back to bad habits.

This great advice. When I am working on my swing at home, I will sometimes use a timer to keep disciplined. No full swing until I've X amount of time working on X. 

[JonMA1]

Great advice for anyone who is struggling as I am. I think more of a structured, disciplined approach - even if it is with a timer and written schedule - might help.

Oddly enough, it might help to cut the practice time down each day or at least accept those sessions that didn't feel very productive instead of the "staying out until I get it right" mentality I've taken for so long.

Thank you @boogielicious, @Lihu, and @Ernest Jones.

[JonMA1]

In no other sport have I experienced such a wide contrast between confidence and complete loss of WTF I'm doing. I feel like I've tried every option to improve.

I've been working on a very structured practice with chips, then slow half swings, then slowly work up to a 3/4 swing, then a full swing. Everything has felt in control. I'd been using a mirror DTL to monitor my hips/shoulder turn and my swing plane,  taking several very slow, deliberate BS's before hitting a ball. Trying to feel the same weight shift and trying to get it to stick. Every night it's the same routine. Then, weather permitting, go out and hit a bucket into the field to work on keys 4 and 5.

Tonight I go out with a 9iron and simply cannot help but hit heel and hosel shots. I couldn't even correct that. Very frustrating. 

The thing is, just as certain as a really good round or practice is not a sign of a dramatic turnaround, the shanks will pass as well. I'll go out tomorrow or the next day and be back to my regular crappy game, making just enough good shots to keep some hope alive of someday getting better  - while having no idea of what exactly to work on.

[Ernest Jones]

22 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

In no other sport have I experienced such a wide contrast between confidence and complete loss of WTF I'm doing. I feel like I've tried every option to improve.

I've been working on a very structured practice with chips, then slow half swings, then slowly work up to a 3/4 swing, then a full swing. Everything has felt in control. I'd been using a mirror DTL to monitor my hips/shoulder turn and my swing plane,  taking several very slow, deliberate BS's before hitting a ball. Trying to feel the same weight shift and trying to get it to stick. Every night it's the same routine. Then, weather permitting, go out and hit a bucket into the field to work on keys 4 and 5.

Tonight I go out with a 9iron and simply cannot help but hit heel and hosel shots. I couldn't even correct that. Very frustrating. 

The thing is, just as certain as a really good round or practice is not a sign of a dramatic turnaround, the shanks will pass as well. I'll go out tomorrow or the next day and be back to my regular crappy game, making just enough good shots to keep some hope alive of someday getting better  - while having no idea of what exactly to work on.

Don't worry about it. Spotty contact comes with the territory, especially if you're working on path. Keep working on making the correct motion (path wise) and the contact will come back. Right now it's more important to get the path corrected. You can fine tune the contact later  

 

[JonMA1]

@Ernest Jones- great advice as always. You really know you stuff when it comes to swing advice. Shanks were gone this morning, replaced with the feeling that I was throwing darts. As I posted, not going to get too excited about either extreme.

My mechanics were off last night and while I don't know exactly what that was, this morning I felt more as though I was rotating around my axis tilt. I know that sounds cliché, but it's the closest way to describe the feeling.

@boogielicious - I've been taking your advice to heart with the exception of using a mirror instead of video. I downloaded a timer phone app which I have set for four 5-minute segments - each of which is dedicated to a different target... stretching/loosening up with full driver swings (no ball), chips and L to L drill, and mirror work followed by full swings. Less ball striking during my practices, more mirror work and the feels associated with what looks correct. If nothing else, the practice sessions are at least structured. The video is from a couple of weeks ago. The mirror is DTL and I'm checking my hip rotation and swing plane. 

Don't know if either of you will ever make it to Northern Michigan, but if you do, I'd like to treat each of you to a round of golf.... or at least a beer. It's the least I can do. Same with you @Lihu.

 

[Lihu]

5 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

@Ernest Jones- great advice as always. You really know you stuff when it comes to swing advice. Shanks were gone this morning, replaced with the feeling that I was throwing darts. As I posted, not going to get too excited about either extreme.

My mechanics were off last night and while I don't know exactly what that was, this morning I felt more as though I was rotating around my axis tilt. I know that sounds cliché, but it's the closest way to describe the feeling.

@boogielicious - I've been taking your advice to heart with the exception of using a mirror instead of video. I downloaded a timer phone app which I have set for four 5-minute segments - each of which is dedicated to a different target... stretching/loosening up with full driver swings (no ball), chips and L to L drill, and mirror work followed by full swings. Less ball striking during my practices, more mirror work and the feels associated with what looks correct. If nothing else, the practice sessions are at least structured. The video is from a couple of weeks ago. The mirror is DTL and I'm checking my hip rotation and swing plane. 

Don't know if either of you will ever make it to Northern Michigan, but if you do, I'd like to treat each of you to a round of golf.... or at least a beer. It's the least I can do. Same with you @Lihu.

 

Thanks, when we go to visit schools we might go to visit Michigan.

[Ernest Jones]

13 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

@Ernest Jones- great advice as always. You really know you stuff when it comes to swing advice. Shanks were gone this morning, replaced with the feeling that I was throwing darts. As I posted, not going to get too excited about either extreme.

My mechanics were off last night and while I don't know exactly what that was, this morning I felt more as though I was rotating around my axis tilt. I know that sounds cliché, but it's the closest way to describe the feeling.

@boogielicious - I've been taking your advice to heart with the exception of using a mirror instead of video. I downloaded a timer phone app which I have set for four 5-minute segments - each of which is dedicated to a different target... stretching/loosening up with full driver swings (no ball), chips and L to L drill, and mirror work followed by full swings. Less ball striking during my practices, more mirror work and the feels associated with what looks correct. If nothing else, the practice sessions are at least structured. The video is from a couple of weeks ago. The mirror is DTL and I'm checking my hip rotation and swing plane. 

Don't know if either of you will ever make it to Northern Michigan, but if you do, I'd like to treat each of you to a round of golf.... or at least a beer. It's the least I can do. Same with you @Lihu.

 

Well, if I ever end up in Northern Michigan I'll definitely need some beer.  

 

[JonMA1]

9 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

Well, if I ever end up in Northern Michigan I'll definitely need some beer.  

 

In some areas up here, you'd also need a confederate flag on your pickup truck - or so it would seem.

But it really isn't all that bad in Northern Michigan. And there are so many golf courses. The irony being they are all closed for 5 months out of the year.

[JonMA1]

Not looking for advice, just making some notes.

Beginning to wonder if there isn't something really wrong with me... some abnormality. But if so, there isn't much I'm going to do about except work harder.

The last couple of rounds have left me feeling like I've had an ass whuppin'. Today was better, but any confidence I have with my irons is countered by a sudden inability to hit wedges and chips - something that has never really been an issue before. The thought of landing in a green side or fairway bunker scares the hell of me, and my lob wedge is now a certain way to add strokes. My putting hasn't changed... make a nice lag putt, miss a 3 footer.

The idea that I have to hit a GIR just to make bogey is maddening. I did hit a birdie today after a tee shot landed within 18" of the flag. But that putt almost lipped out.

After giving up on a respectable score, putting became easier and I made a couple from beyond 5 or 6'.

So... my very modest goal to get to bogey golf seems unreachable. My game is closer to double bogey at this point. Most of the holes go as follows... Nice tee shot, then either a GIR followed by a 3 putt, or a nGIR with 2 chips to get on followed by a 2 or 3 putt, or land in the sand and just add a shit-ton of strokes. I can live with a blowup hole or two, but if I'm not getting pars I'll never get those strokes back.

1. Work on chipping from just off the green. It's not that #$%^ing hard to hit a green from 10 yards. In fact, I should be able to occasionally get it to within 1 putt distance (distance for a normal golfer that is).
2. Work on wedge approach shots (think windmill). There's no reason I can't hit a much higher percentage of greens from 110 yards and in.
3. Continue to work on keys 4 and 5 for full swing irons. This hasn't been a deal breaker. Contact has been good and I'm happy with the distances, but am still getting some inconsistent starting lines and ball flight.

[JonMA1]

After enjoying some real success with my iron play this past month or so, been having a bit of trouble with my long irons fading and slicing. Still shot some decent scores, but those had had to do with other parts of the game improving and more than a few lucky bounces.

I tried everything to get my path more in to out last couple of night but only succeeded in poorer contact and more left to right ball flight. After hitting 60 or so with the 5 iron, I finally slowed down and concentrated on:

1. Turning my shoulders and hips more while maintaining the "triangle" and keeping the arms "connected". Right elbow closer to left.
2. Bringing my left knee in slightly and keeping my hips from moving back on the backswing.
3. Bringing the club handle very low on the downswing. I think this helped get my weight forward - which in turn kept me from cutting across the ball and/or casting (maybe???).

Ended the practice hitting some very decent shots. Not all of them draws, but definitely cleaner shots with much better flight/distance.

I sound like a broken record, but it's so damned hard to sustain improvements. When things start to go bad, I don't know what to work on or how to diagnose the resulting poor shots. That's the problem with having a result-driven approach.

In any case, I'm not going to panic. I'll continue playing the forward tees on my home course as it forces me to use my long irons. The driver and woods will get a workout when I play the other courses.

[JonMA1]

Not the best angle but it shows what I need to see.

• Trying to get a better shoulder turn. This video is an improvement over my Vlog swings from last week. Might be opening my hips too much too soon on the BS.
• Still not getting weight forward which I think puts the low point of the swing a bit too far back and doesn't allow for much delofting of the club face. I can hit a draw but there are far too many high fades. I'm pretty sure I can get a bit more power if/when I can improve this piece.
• Got to work on reducing all the excessive movement. Same story different year.

[Abu3baid]

Keep at it my friend,. The movement has subsided from what it used to be in my opinion.  

Could you by chance record a full swing when you start your backswing from a still position without any movement?  Just try it out, put your club down behind the ball, count to 3 and then start your swing.. It will be interesting what it looks like compared to the above.

[JonMA1]

I cleaned up my youtube channel today thinking that because the videos were "embedded", they'd remain on my swing thread. Not the case. I've replaced my last entry (top video below). 

---

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion @Abu3baid.  I will try it out and see if I can get it to stick this time. 

There are train wrecks...

...and then there are TRAiN WRECKS

I like hitting into the net just because, well, I like hitting into the net. But as far as helping my game, if I can't take what I'm doing inside out to the course, it has little value towards improving my swing.

I need to record swings outside and on the course to really evaluate what's going on. My scoring and club distance has improved - even with a really poor swing (bottom video). I can only imagine how much better those scores could get if I'd slow down, relax, smooth out the take-away to a better shoulder turn, and quit leaving all my weight on the right side.