Weight transfer in downswing - rotate hips only or slide and rotate?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by birlyshirly

What are the circumstances in which more conscious rotation would be a benefit?

Pressed for time but a short answer may still be worth a little: often good players will stall out a little, their hips go forward, their arms leave their torso, and they have problems hitting big hooks, pushes, even push-cuts if they keep the face held open (they get tired of hitting big hooks) too much. So feeling that they keep their turning rates up can help eliminate those problems, keep the club exiting on plane rather than high, and keep their speed through the ball up so they don't have to be as handsy/wristy with it (you said something about your release being quieter).

Originally Posted by tpcollins

hip slide

transfer of weight

hip rotation

I'm thinking the hip slide promotes the transfer of weight which allows for an easier rotation of the hips. But don't you begin the initial hip slide with a push off from the right foot?

Hip slide (and a little of the "jumping" that we talk about - extension of the front knee) is the transfer of weight/force/pressure. They're the same.

Hip rotation happens simultaneously with the hip slide. It changes the dimension of the hip slide - from 45° to the right at the top of the backswing (forward is towards first base), to 45° left just after impact ("forward" is towards third base).

The right foot doesn't push off, no. I answered that in the hip slide thread briefly.

[birlyshirly]

Originally Posted by cipher

Too much hip slide generally means too fast I believe.  So if the hips slide to far too fast then you are not using the ground in the manner that you should, you are creating path and face issues because the the arms are not in sync with the rest of the body.  I will let any of the instructors share more if they want on that.  I really don't know a lot more about it at the moment and I kind of treat what I am being taught as someone else's intellectual property in a way.  I also think very few golfers have this issue of sliding too much.  If I had to pick, I would choose sliding too much with not enough rotation over too much static rotation.  Know what I mean?

I'm with you. To be honest, I was sceptical that I would be one of the few "oversliders". Like you, I expected that the true cases of this would be few and far between. Recent experiences suggest however that I could indeed be exceptional in this regard....

Originally Posted by cipher

For me or anyone to fix too much slide,  I don't if the thought would be "more conscious rotation".  I am not sure but it seems like that could cause over rotation issues in the upper part of the body and possibly throwing the club head out.  I have a drill for what I need to do to fix it and it is working without actually thinking about rotation.

You've earned your "Stupid Monkey" badge!

[birlyshirly]

Originally Posted by iacas

Pressed for time but a short answer may still be worth a little: often good players will stall out a little, their hips go forward, their arms leave their torso, and they have problems hitting big hooks, pushes, even push-cuts if they keep the face held open (they get tired of hitting big hooks) too much. So feeling that they keep their turning rates up can help eliminate those problems, keep the club exiting on plane rather than high, and keep their speed through the ball up so they don't have to be as handsy/wristy with it (you said something about your release being quieter).

That sounds like a plausible explanation of what's been happening - with perhaps one twist. I was certainly stalling some. What was confusing was that my arms and club still seemed to exit on plane - certainly much better than where I was a few months ago - but the ball was still going everywhere. Big hooks and reactive blocks were the order of the day.

I haven't seen video of my swing since I started hitting it better. It doesn't feel like I'm pulling the club much more left - and I'd be surprised to see that on camera. But I think I might be getting a similar path and plane with more body turn and less arm and hand manipulation, which is maybe more consistent.

And the good news is, either the warm weather is having a very positive effect or I've picked up some clubhead speed too.

[cipher]

I'm with you. To be honest, I was sceptical that I would be one of the few "oversliders". Like you, I expected that the true cases of this would be few and far between. Recent experiences suggest however that I could indeed be exceptional in this regard....  You've earned your "Stupid Monkey" badge!

I will be stupid any day, as long as I can keep getting better. ;).

[tpcollins]

Originally Posted by iacas

Hip rotation happens simultaneously with the hip slide. It changes the dimension of the hip slide - from 45° to the right at the top of the backswing (forward is towards first base), to 45° left just after impact ("forward" is towards third base).

The right foot doesn't push off, no. I answered that in the hip slide thread briefly.

If I just slide and rotate the hips without pushing off my right foot, then I feel like I've tilted my spine even more and the center of my chest is morel where it was at the top of the backswing - and I feel like my lower body is running away and I'm off balance.

If I push of the right foot to start the hip slide and rotation, I feel like I've maintained my spine angle and the center of my chest has moved moved directly above the ball - and I feel balanced.

But if I'm not suppose to push the right foot at all - and I'll go to the range and work on it. Thanks.

[tpcollins]

Update - after watching some videos of players like Hogan, it seems when I loaded the right side on the backswing, my hip was over my right foot. At the top, Hogan's hip was on a 10 degree or so tilt towards the target. If I do this way, I can slide and rotate a lot easier - duh. I may have been putting too much weight on the right side - therefore the reason for having to push off and having too many moving parts in my swing.

[colin007]

Originally Posted by tpcollins

Update - after watching some videos of players like Hogan, it seems when I loaded the right side on the backswing, my hip was over my right foot. At the top, Hogan's hip was on a 10 degree or so tilt towards the target. If I do this way, I can slide and rotate a lot easier - duh. I may have been putting too much weight on the right side - therefore the reason for having to push off and having too many moving parts in my swing.

exactly.  it becomes very difficult to deliver an efficient strike at the ball if you are moving off of it.  the more you move back on your right side, the more you need to move it back to square one and then on to the target side, leading to inconsistencies.

[bendport]

If you look on youtube at the best players swings they start the downswing with a lateral bumb of the left hip followed by a rotation of the hips, here is a drill to show you how to do it easily