Range Balls and Ball Flight

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I like it when facts and science have a little tug-o-war.  Always makes for a good battle.

The range balls are much harder which allows for much less compression.  Wonder if that would cause it.  A google search brings up some interesting discussions with range balls, side spin, and driver.

[TJBam]

bplewis et al. -- I don't appreciate being made the butt of a joke on this thread because of my observation that harder, lighter range balls seem to produce more side spin with my driver.  Perhaps you could **** off and leave the conversation to those who are interested in golf, rather than a career of stand up internet comedy where you pick on others.  Thanks boys.

[TJBam]

Anyone interested in actual subject-

For what it's worth there are anecdotes in this golfwrx thread that point to range balls having higher spin rate off of driver than a live ball.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/284753-range-balls-vs-real-balls/

The OP notes that range balls don't go as far as live balls (duh) but other posters note that in their personal experiences with Trackman, fitting days, etc that range balls accumulate more spin with a driver than live balls.

Also it is noted here that range balls have about 1000rpm more spin than live balls off the driver.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/2330/ball-spin-off-driver

[TJBam]

A TST user notes that range balls "bend "more with his driver here because of their lighter weight:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/1650/range-balls

Any other thoughts on this?

[geauxforbroke]

I'm not sure how a lighter ball would "bend" more on its own. I would certainly be more succeptable to outside forces (wind).

Several people in the threads you've posted have noted that range balls typically have lower compression and harder covers. Those factors along with few to no dimples should result in less side spin, as well as less drag, which would reduce "bend".

Guess it depends on the exact range balls you're using, and whether or not they are actually "range" balls.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by TJBam

bplewis et al. -- I don't appreciate being made the butt of a joke on this thread because of my observation that harder, lighter range balls seem to produce more side spin with my driver.  Perhaps you could **** off and leave the conversation to those who are interested in golf, rather than a career of stand up internet comedy where you pick on others.  Thanks boys.

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I'm not sure how a lighter ball would "bend" more on its own. I would certainly be more succeptable to outside forces (wind).

Several people in the threads you've posted have noted that range balls typically have lower compression and harder covers. Those factors along with few to no dimples should result in less side spin, as well as less drag, which would reduce "bend".

Guess it depends on the exact range balls you're using, and whether or not they are actually "range" balls.

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million

There's so many myths about range balls. Let me explain a few things.

The range I use uses all real balls, everything from ProV1s to Top Flites. They fly about 90% as far as the real thing. Other ranges use limited flight balls, and these may only go 75% as far. These are the first two differences to be discussed.

First, "range" balls, the ones that are marked as such, are what we call limited flight balls. They are quite a bit lighter than standard 1.6 oz golf balls. For this reason, they float. Many range balls are labeled "floater" for this very reason. The rules of golf only limit how small and how heavy a ball can be, it can be as light or as large as you want. Lighter and/or larger balls don't go as far, so everyone makes balls that weigh 1.62 oz and are 1.8" in diameter. Range balls, however, are lighter.

The dimples are also designed to limit the flight of the ball. Since the dimples cause lift, the balls will not go as high either. Range balls usually have more dimples than standard golf balls, over 400 on occasion. Range balls are also very durable, made from hard surlyn. Range balls are either one or two piece balls, where as regular balls are almost always two or more. Range balls carry a compression of about 80-90, which is about the same as an average amateur golf ball. Some ranges use softer balls however.

Second factor is the core itself. When a ball is repeatedly struck and deformed, the core loses its resiliency. If you take a rubber band and stretch it, dry it out, or just let it get old, it doesn't have as much elasticity. Golf balls are also made from rubber. Rubber has a limited shape memory, so like aluminum, it can only be deformed so many times before it breaks. When the core finally wears out, the ball will become dead, and fly like a rock. Where I practice, we get a few "dead" balls in the bunch. They feel very soft and pure when you hit them sometimes, but rarely go very far. A good quality golf ball will last for a while, depending on how hard it's hit. I use a ball for about nine to twelve holes before the groove marks in the cover become pretty nasty, and the ball begins to feel like putty. Despite popular belief, scratched balls don't fly poorly. Why do you think they put dimples on them? It's the same thing. The thing is, modern golf balls are so well designed, that scratches will inhibit their flight, but nothing is worse than having a smooth sphere.

And if you've never tried it, take a golf ball and sand the dimples off, the hit it with a driver. I'll be willing to bet you can't hit it more than 150 yards.

I think that range balls in general have more dimples than normal balls.

Edit: that quote is lifted from the range balls thread that is linked above.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by TJBam

Quote:

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I'm not sure how a lighter ball would "bend" more on its own. I would certainly be more succeptable to outside forces (wind).

Several people in the threads you've posted have noted that range balls typically have lower compression and harder covers. Those factors along with few to no dimples should result in less side spin, as well as less drag, which would reduce "bend".

Guess it depends on the exact range balls you're using, and whether or not they are actually "range" balls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million

There's so many myths about range balls. Let me explain a few things.

The range I use uses all real balls, everything from ProV1s to Top Flites. They fly about 90% as far as the real thing. Other ranges use limited flight balls, and these may only go 75% as far. These are the first two differences to be discussed.

First, "range" balls, the ones that are marked as such, are what we call limited flight balls. They are quite a bit lighter than standard 1.6 oz golf balls. For this reason, they float. Many range balls are labeled "floater" for this very reason. The rules of golf only limit how small and how heavy a ball can be, it can be as light or as large as you want. Lighter and/or larger balls don't go as far, so everyone makes balls that weigh 1.62 oz and are 1.8" in diameter. Range balls, however, are lighter.

The dimples are also designed to limit the flight of the ball. Since the dimples cause lift, the balls will not go as high either. Range balls usually have more dimples than standard golf balls, over 400 on occasion. Range balls are also very durable, made from hard surlyn. Range balls are either one or two piece balls, where as regular balls are almost always two or more. Range balls carry a compression of about 80-90, which is about the same as an average amateur golf ball. Some ranges use softer balls however.

Second factor is the core itself. When a ball is repeatedly struck and deformed, the core loses its resiliency. If you take a rubber band and stretch it, dry it out, or just let it get old, it doesn't have as much elasticity. Golf balls are also made from rubber. Rubber has a limited shape memory, so like aluminum, it can only be deformed so many times before it breaks. When the core finally wears out, the ball will become dead, and fly like a rock. Where I practice, we get a few "dead" balls in the bunch. They feel very soft and pure when you hit them sometimes, but rarely go very far. A good quality golf ball will last for a while, depending on how hard it's hit. I use a ball for about nine to twelve holes before the groove marks in the cover become pretty nasty, and the ball begins to feel like putty. Despite popular belief, scratched balls don't fly poorly. Why do you think they put dimples on them? It's the same thing. The thing is, modern golf balls are so well designed, that scratches will inhibit their flight, but nothing is worse than having a smooth sphere.

And if you've never tried it, take a golf ball and sand the dimples off, the hit it with a driver. I'll be willing to bet you can't hit it more than 150 yards.

I'm think that range balls in general have more dimples than normal balls.

Edit: that quote is lifted from the range balls thread that is linked above.

They may have more dimples, but my point was that often these dimples are shallow and/or worn down.

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

They may have more dimples, but my point was that often these dimples are shallow and/or worn down.

Okay. And my point is that these range balls have more spin off of a driver. Which is both factual and scientific, and shows that my assertion was indeed correct.

And that's the "facts."

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by TJBam

Okay.  And my point is that these range balls have more spin off of a driver.  Which is both factual and scientific, and shows that my assertion was indeed correct.

And that's the "facts."

You're assertions have, by and large, been about the amount of hook or slice, not the amount of spin. You can take a smooth sphere and putt 4000 RPMs of side spin on it, but it probably won't curve much. I don't argue the amount of spin, just the amount of resulting lateral movement.

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

You're assertions have, by and large, been about the amount of hook or slice, not the amount of spin. You can take a smooth sphere and putt 4000 RPMs of side spin on it, but it probably won't curve much. I don't argue the amount of spin, just the amount of resulting lateral movement.

It's been pointed out in the threads that I've already mentioned that the SPIN RATE (measured in RPMS) is higher with a range ball than a ProV1 or other premium ball.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/2330/ball-spin-off-driver This thread has been posted 2-3 times already, and has answered that a range ball has 1,000 more RPM than a pinnacle range ball.    But God forbid you read something that would imply that you were wrong for mocking me (and you're being an ass).

Now we must ask ourselves does spin affect lateral movement?  I'll let you answer that one.

[460CompMark]

gobroke knows everything. if i need some swing advice, i will make sure and ask him.

[boogielicious]

I typically will use bad range balls just for contact drills. I will cherry pick the better balls for ball flight.  I will then add a couple of my own scuffed balls for the final distance check.  Most range balls are too beat up to get any accurate data for the course.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by TJBam

Quote:

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

You're assertions have, by and large, been about the amount of hook or slice, not the amount of spin. You can take a smooth sphere and putt 4000 RPMs of side spin on it, but it probably won't curve much. I don't argue the amount of spin, just the amount of resulting lateral movement.

It's been pointed out in the threads that I've already mentioned that the SPIN RATE (measured in RPMS) is higher with a range ball than a ProV1 or other premium ball.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/2330/ball-spin-off-driver  This thread has been posted 2-3 times already, and has answered that a range ball has 1,000 more RPM than a pinnacle range ball.    But God forbid you read something that would imply that you were wrong for mocking me (and you're being an ass).

Now we must ask ourselves does spin affect lateral movement?  I'll let you answer that one.

Dude, let's be civil here.

I've read everything that you've posted. Yes, there have been posters that have said a range ball may spin more than a standard range ball. I've also come across several threads and internet discussions that have said the opposite. I'd be curious to do some experimenting with a beat up range ball vs. a new ProV1 or B330 (or whatever else). But my argument is, and will continue to be, that regardless of the amount of side spin on the ball, shallower dimples probably won't allow the spin to affect the flight of the ball as much as with a standard ball.

[iceman777]

I think I'll just go to the range that carries older , "brand name " balls . It's where my ball flight usually replicates what I do on the course .

[rustyredcab]

I don't spin the "range" balls at my home course's range more than regular balls. Perhaps I don't have a fast enough swing (103 driver SS) to compress the rocks on the range. I know that when I hit a regular ball, it feels good and launches correctly. When I hit the range balls, anything could happen except it feeling soft. They are not limited distance balls. Just old, hard balls. I have never seen one that is cut in any way except when hit my a lawn mower. Considering the abuse they take, they are durable -- which I'm guessing is the primary reason they were purchased.

Friday I will be playing a local club where the range balls are limited distance. Beautiful range but all I feel I can do is practice making solid contact and direction -- and loosen up. I do not worry about ball flight or distance. The good news about those balls is that they do not feel harsh. Add the lush range grass, and you have a pleasant experience.

One local club has ProV1's on the range (practice). If I was a member of a club that did that, I'd switch to that brand for that reason alone.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

One local club has ProV1's on the range (practice). If I was a member of a club that did that, I'd switch to that brand for that reason alone.

When I played in high school, our team's home course had ProV1's on the range. Talk about being spoiled.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

When I played in high school, our team's home course had ProV1's on the range. Talk about being spoiled.

The only marks on the balls was the word "practice." I played once with a young PGA pro who joked that he was considering changing his name to "Practice" so he could steal those range balls and use them in tournaments.