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RandallT

My Swing (RandallT)

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Guys, I made a comment that Randy's trail leg looked a little straight. It was not a big deal, it was an observation.

We're taught here that straightening this leg too much restricts the amount of torque you can generate in your body in the backswing. The theory is not that you are using your tendons as springs (well, not much anyway) but that in order for you to get the most from your core muscles they want to be extended so when they fire they can generate more power and speed when they contract. Twisting your core extends these muscles. X-factor has absolutely zero to do with tendons acting like springs and everything to do with lengthening core muscles so they can generate more force when they contract. That's no different in any sport where rotational force is used hence using a sport where this generation of power in the core is key.

I'm not acting the victim, Erik, but when I've spoken my mind before I've gotten myself in trouble and pissed people off. I'd prefer not to do that again, it's simply not worth the hassle.

Good to see you working hard, Randy :)

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9 minutes ago, Nosevi said:

Guys, I made a comment that Randy's trail leg looked a little straight. It was not a big deal, it was an observation.

Yeah, and then you were "shouted down."

9 minutes ago, Nosevi said:

We're taught here that straightening this leg too much restricts the amount of torque you can generate in your body in the backswing. The theory is not that you are using your tendons as springs (well, not much anyway) but that in order for you to get the most from your core muscles they want to be extended so when they fire they can generate more power and speed when they contract. Twisting your core extends these muscles. X-factor has absolutely zero to do with tendons acting like springs and everything to do with lengthening core muscles so they can generate more force when they contract. That's no different in any sport where rotational force is used hence using a sport where this generation of power in the core is key.

You do not know of what you speak.

I said x-factor stretch, which is a real thing that deals with tendons and ligaments and such. It's not the same as the largely misguided "X-Factor" (i.e. "restrict your hips to create a huge differential between your shoulders and hips), and you cannot begin to tell me that keeping 10° more or less flex in his knee is going to have much of an impact on his ability to stretch his core muscles out, let alone enough to offset the potential gained by achieving more turn. Restricting knee extension restricts shoulder turn by restricting hip turn.

If you need a 60° differential to "stretch" your core, you can achieve that with a hips/shoulders turn of 20/80 or 40/100. I'll often take the 40/100 over the 20/80.

Human beings are not springs. You cannot "coil" up and expect to snap back much at all. Muscular power has to be applied.

9 minutes ago, Nosevi said:

I'm not acting the victim, Erik…

You are, and continue to do so. I also don't appreciate your pejorative word choices. It's a discussion.

This thread isn't the place to discuss this. Randy has a plan and is moving forward with it. We all seem to agree that fully extending ("straight" is a binary state, which is why I prefer to say extending, or decreasing flex) his trail knee is not what he's being asked to do.

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21 hours ago, Lihu said:

What I found is that if I can keep my wrist flatter (and internally aligned) my back swing kind of shortens "automatically".

I felt that today- interesting. When I focused on my left wrist, I naturally didn't get long and "armsy" at the top. 

20 hours ago, iacas said:

My recommendation? Stop at "half a backswing." When I tell people I want to see a "half swing" they show me a pretty good full swing (not a 130% swing :-D).

Or, something like "stop when my left arm is horizontal" or "when the shaft sticks up vertically" (ignore the tilt from the "swing plane" - vertically from face-on 2D video).

Eventually, over a looooong period of time, your "half swing" will become more natural.

Gotcha. Will do.

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Couple good practice days. I'll be jotting down notes in the May daily practice thread (below) to hold myself to the commitment:

Planning to play a round tomorrow at the same course I played last week (shot 95, which was disappointing). I'll be able to do get a small bucket to do a few little practice items, then loosen up with full swings before the round. Still looking forward to getting an analysis back so that I can get a new assignment on what to practice next.

 

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On 5/2/2016 at 11:50 AM, RandallT said:

Planning to play a round tomorrow at the same course I played last week (shot 95, which was disappointing). I'll be able to do get a small bucket to do a few little practice items, then loosen up with full swings before the round. Still looking forward to getting an analysis back so that I can get a new assignment on what to practice next.

I played today, but it was rainy for the early part, and with nobody to join me, I am not a fan of playing for score. I used the opportunity to play multiple balls. Lots of drives each tee shot. Lots of approaches from various distances. All of them focusing on the elements listed above. Very productive, and I feel like I'm getting my stamina back. I played the final few holes as the sun came out and things were starting to dry out: par, bogey, bogey, par. Not bad at all. 

Biggest news is that I have my assignment from my instructor, and it's unsurprising (persistent issue from the start): lay the club down on the downswing such that my club points outside the ball at A5.  Use a slow motion to get from A4 to A6, then continue down to impact. Then do a regular swing to see if it's sticking. Record the entire drill, and send back.

Also, I'll get a tripod finally, since my angles are way off. You should see the silly way I'm arranging things to get my phone to sit at the correct spot, knowing full well I can't get it where I really want it. Enough. Just get a darn tripod.

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Embarrassed to submit this one, but the practice session today was 100% on laying the shaft down. I know changing the picture can be hard, and I felt off kilter today. Visually, I cannot even see that there was much change really happening, but the feel was quite awkward today. The ball felt like it was way too far behind me. Ball position looks ok, but somehow when I have it in my mind to come in shallow, I feel like I'm going to hit the ball straight right.

So the swings aren't particularly good, but I'll chalk that up to changing my mental picture of my swing, and next time it'll be better. Also, I'm getting feedback if the drill is being done incorrectly. I'd hate to ingrain more bad habits, so I submitted this video in to get that confirmed. I don't plan to submit videos more than every couple of weeks typically, but this is twice over the course of a few days, I think!

 

 

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On 5/5/2016 at 3:15 PM, RandallT said:

Embarrassed to submit this one, but the practice session today was 100% on laying the shaft down. I know changing the picture can be hard, and I felt off kilter today. Visually, I cannot even see that there was much change really happening, but the feel was quite awkward today. The ball felt like it was way too far behind me. Ball position looks ok, but somehow when I have it in my mind to come in shallow, I feel like I'm going to hit the ball straight right.

So the swings aren't particularly good, but I'll chalk that up to changing my mental picture of my swing, and next time it'll be better. Also, I'm getting feedback if the drill is being done incorrectly. I'd hate to ingrain more bad habits, so I submitted this video in to get that confirmed. I don't plan to submit videos more than every couple of weeks typically, but this is twice over the course of a few days, I think!

 

 

Like the slow practice but at  00:18-19 I believe your hips and shoulders are way too closed to mimic where you want to be in your swing at A6.

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2 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

Like the slow practice but at  00:18-19 I believe your hips and shoulders are way too closed to mimic where you want to be in your swing at A6.

Absolutely correct. I already got feedback from my instructor, and he's given me pointers on better alignments at each of the checkpoints, so I'll get back to work. No wonder the slo-mo felt so awkward. I really felt like I was off kilter and was going to hit the ball straight sideways with those positions.  Because I would have! Anyway, just proves it's good to get feedback on drills to make the corrections early so you don't ingrain bad habits. 

I'll make better notes on A4-A7 checkpoints for arms, shoulders, hips, legs and get going with a better mapping at the next range session. Hopefully, the next vid will be much improved. 

Thanks for the feedback!

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How are things coming with the new alignments? Have you gotten a chance to get to the range again?

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41 minutes ago, travisv said:

How are things coming with the new alignments? Have you gotten a chance to get to the range again?

I think I've been twice since. Thanks for asking. Really trying to pinpoint a feel that will work as I speed up, and I think it's coming along. I've used video to review slow motion, and it's better. Form falls apart at higher speeds, but I'll be back out tomorrow at the range with my camera. Maybe I'll post a vid of the mapping I'm still doing at different speeds. Hopefully a bit better than the last one, and people can give me more comments before I resubmit to Evolvr. I don't wanna inundate them, so I'm thinking next week to submit again for them.

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What I tried last night to help with my steep downswing was trying to focus on turning my left shoulder more down and under my chin in combination with feeling like I'm keeping my right elbow tucked in to my side. Unfortunately the camera angle wasn't quite right so I wasn't able to see how much it helped but it did seem to put me on a better plane coming down and promoted an in to out swing. Just thought I'd toss that out there because the angle your shoulders are at looks very similar to how mine were. I don't think you have any issues with your right elbow like I did though.

shoulder angle.jpg

I think you and I both could benefit from getting our shoulder angle more like Luke Donald's. It's not a huge change, but you can see his should goes under his chin and our shoulder is hitting our chin.

luke donald shoulder angle.jpg

Hopefully that make sense, just tossing out something that I've tried recently that seems to be helping.

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Thanks @Jeremie Boop. You actually re-iterated a point from my instructor. So congrats on the good eye! 

I'm heading off soon to a range with camera and tripod in hand. Hopefully the rain holds off. Light sprinkling now, but anything more and I don't want the camera to get wet.

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I'm just starting to take a look at these in detail to compare to my instructor's feedback from the previous set. Goal is still obvious to get less steep, so I'm mapping a flatter downswing. My general comments after just getting home:

  1. Still feels awkward. Must be changing the picture.
  2. Tried to improve shoulders being more level at A6 (was WAY to angled before). From what I saw at range, it still is angled too much up from face on.
  3. Focused on flat wrist at A4 and club inside hands at A6. Haven't analyzed that yet.
  4. Tried just doing 30% swing speed at the end. Amazing that I still got steep. I was REALLY REALLY trying to drop the club behind me and keep the club inside the hands at A6 on that last swing at 30%. Next time, I'll need to go even slower til it is right. Then speed up.

Posting now, and will take a more detailed look tonight. Any comments welcome. Goal is to submit another set of videos to my instructor late next week.

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Good range session today, but forgot my memory card! Duh- left it in my computer. So no video this time, but still productive in doing the drills assigned by instructor. My notes:

  1. Still feels awkward, but I do feel progress. While the uncomfortable feeling is a good sign, I think it also indicates my form is still not correct. I think I'm better than my first submission of the drills, but I'm not producing the form that I'm seeing (and envisioning).
  2. It's harder at the range to lay the club down than it is in the mirror. I still don't get why that is.
  3. I have a tendency to cup my wrists at the start of the downswing. I'm still catching myself at A6 with cupped wrists.
  4. I'm having difficulty differentiating the inward movement of the hands that helps produce the flatter club from the move that creates an Over The Top move where the whole body moves inward. My instinct is to drop the hands are arms straight down. (Worst advice ever that I took was to drop everything into the slot by moving downward. I did that wrong to create steepness over the years).
  5. I have a tendency to keep my back to the target longer than I should. At A6, my shoulders should not be as closed as they are in my slow motion drills. Doubt I could make a good swing from A6 with shoulders closed (and a bit angled up). Like May 5 video above, but improved (I think). 
  6. While I can get to A6 in slow motion, stop, and then move through impact from there after a pause (and a bit of a reset), I'm having difficulty doing it as one smooth motion from A4 to A7 with the ball there. Impact with the ball is weak. But then again, it's all slow motion. Never hit a ball over 30% speed.

Rain due in for next two days, so video is not likely. My range has a covered area (so I'll likely do more drills with the ball), but to set up video, the camera would need to be outside of the covering. Thursday looks nice, but I might be able to play 18. Looks like my next video would be Friday. Not the quite the progress with video I had hoped for. More mirror work on body alignments at home in mirror for next couple days. 

 

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3 minutes ago, RandallT said:

Good range session today, but forgot my memory card! Duh- left it in my computer. So no video this time, but still productive in doing the drills assigned by instructor. My notes:

  1. Still feels awkward, but I do feel progress. While the uncomfortable feeling is a good sign, I think it also indicates my form is still not correct. I think I'm better than my first submission of the drills, but I'm not producing the form that I'm seeing (and envisioning).
  2. It's harder at the range to lay the club down than it is in the mirror. I still don't get why that is.
  3. I have a tendency to cup my wrists at the start of the downswing. I'm still catching myself at A6 with cupped wrists.
  4. I'm having difficulty differentiating the inward movement of the hands that helps produce the flatter club from the move that creates an Over The Top move where the whole body moves inward. My instinct is to drop the hands are arms straight down. (Worst advice ever that I took was to drop everything into the slot by moving downward. I did that wrong to create steepness over the years).
  5. I have a tendency to keep my back to the target longer than I should. At A6, my shoulders should not be as closed as they are in my slow motion drills. Doubt I could make a good swing from A6 with shoulders closed (and a bit angled up). Like May 5 video above, but improved (I think). 
  6. While I can get to A6 in slow motion, stop, and then move through impact from there after a pause (and a bit of a reset), I'm having difficulty doing it as one smooth motion from A4 to A7 with the ball there. Impact with the ball is weak. But then again, it's all slow motion. Never hit a ball over 30% speed.

Rain due in for next two days, so video is not likely. My range has a covered area (so I'll likely do more drills with the ball), but to set up video, the camera would need to be outside of the covering. Thursday looks nice, but I might be able to play 18. Looks like my next video would be Friday. Not the quite the progress with video I had hoped for. More mirror work on body alignments at home in mirror for next couple days. 

 

During my slow motion swings I noticed that by initiating the downswing by turning my hips first the club automatically dropped to a much flatter downswing. This is something that related to what Erik had told me previously.

slo mo downswing.gif

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4 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

During my slow motion swings I noticed that by initiating the downswing by turning my hips first the club automatically dropped to a much flatter downswing. This is something that related to what Erik had told me previously.

slo mo downswing.gif

Yah, I'm definitely having trouble with initiating my downswing right now. I'll ask my instructor for tips. I've been doing what felt like a little hip bump of sorts, but in my last submission, I was TOTALLY overdoing it and getting too much axis tilt. Maybe less bump, more hip turn.  Slow motion definitely exposes flaws, that's for sure! But if I can't do it slow, there's no hope as I speed up.

Thanks for the idea.

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1 hour ago, RandallT said:

Yah, I'm definitely having trouble with initiating my downswing right now. I'll ask my instructor for tips. I've been doing what felt like a little hip bump of sorts, but in my last submission, I was TOTALLY overdoing it and getting too much axis tilt. Maybe less bump, more hip turn.  Slow motion definitely exposes flaws, that's for sure! But if I can't do it slow, there's no hope as I speed up.

Thanks for the idea.

I'm not doing any bump, just hip turn. By keeping spine angle the hip bump happens automatically. Hopefully your instructor is able to come up with a tip that will help.

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Awkwardness continues, but some slight improvement from my original attempt to flatten the swing. Was good to do full swings today and work some things out. Plan from here:

Play a round tomorrow just to stay fresh. 

Go to range Friday and make adjustments based on what I'm seeing here. Submit that to Evolvr. Perhaps after studying the last lesson and reviewing these videos tonight and tomorrow, I can make some adjustments for the Friday video that get me closer to where he wants me to be. 

Then repeat it all over again after the next set of assignments roll in.

 

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